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#134625 - 01/09/04 03:27 PM Re: Question for Peter David
NatGertler Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/99
Posts: 4618
Quote:
Originally posted by justapilgrim32:
"Sleeper" because the singles are impossible to find and i'm interested in reading it. It was like $17.99, I'm going by memory here, and that aint always so acurate, but their in the ball park. The other was a recent New X-men collection. it was only like $12.99.
The most recent New X-Men collection is $14.99, although it does have one more issue's worth of material than the Sleeper book.

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#134626 - 01/09/04 04:08 PM Re: Question for Peter David
Rod Odom Offline
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Registered: 06/16/03
Posts: 202
Quote:
Originally posted by ATKokmen:

I do tend to agree with Nat that DC (and other publishers of original graphic novels) almost surely expect original graphic novels to generate sufficient revenues on their own, without general subsidy from other products. Publishers may have a different set of expectations for revenues generated by original graphic novels than for monthly magazines, but that's not quite the same thing as saying that the monthly magazine sales make possible the creation of original graphic novels, or that monthly magazine sales are necessary for a viable original graphic novel publishing program.


What you say is absolutely true, but we are discussing why DC's OGN hardcovers are at the $25 price point, not why the OGNs exist at all. As you said, a publisher like DC may have different (most likely lower) profit expectations with that product. They can't pursue that lower margin hardcover market unless their monthlies are providing the profits to pull their quarterly earnings upwards.

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#134627 - 01/09/04 05:47 PM Re: Question for Peter David
cactusmaac Offline
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Registered: 05/21/03
Posts: 1406
Loc: Undisclosed Location
So which monthly series was subsidising Neil Gaiman's Endless Nights OGN?

I'd find it rather bizarre if a company chose to publish less profitable OGNs if their monthlies were making them the dough. Why not just publish more monthlies?

Quote:


On a different note, i was in the shop yesterday (ya know that weekly trek to the comic shop that you guys have been beating up.. hell I still get giddy when i pull into the parking lot) and i checked out two newly arrived TPB's. "Sleeper" because the singles are impossible to find and i'm interested in reading it. It was like $17.99, I'm going by memory here, and that aint always so acurate, but their in the ball park. The other was a recent New X-men collection. it was only like $12.99. This made me to wonder if the large price descrepancy might not have something to do with #'s of monthlies sold. Loser's does not sale very well monthly, less that 20,000 at last count (i think) and New X-men has been saleing like gangbusters (i guess 100,000 counts as gangbusters in today's market). Well they were both color, both by large comic book houses and seemed to be close on thickness/page count. Just curious as to why one was such a bargain and the other (the one i wanted, lucky me) priced kinda steep. i'm aware that there could be all sorts of reasons why the TPB's were priced differently, but i just wonder what the formula is for determining TPB price, particularly on collections.


According to Brubaker, Sleeper was priced pretty high since DC only tends to lower the prices of trades if they're going to support a series which is sure to continue. At the time the Sleeper trade was published, they were still undecided if it would continue or not.
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#134628 - 01/09/04 06:28 PM Re: Question for Peter David
NatGertler Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/99
Posts: 4618
Quote:
Originally posted by Rod Odom:
They can't pursue that lower margin hardcover market unless their monthlies are providing the profits to pull their quarterly earnings upwards.
Ummm, every profitable project pulls their earnings upwards. That's kinda the definition of "profitable" and "earnings".

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#134629 - 01/09/04 06:38 PM Re: Question for Peter David
B. Michael White Offline
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Registered: 09/25/01
Posts: 2123
Loc: Nowhere
Pilgrim,

Its both Format and story. ANd I stand by what i say, if a story isnt collected in trade it is of no loss to me because there will be something else ready to take my entertainment dollar..


Talk about the La la la brigade...

Its just not worth it TO ME to buy monthlies.

Were talking about choice here. Its not like we go into a shop "oooooooh A trade! It has no story and the worst art I have ever seen, but a trade is a trade!" and thus end our purchase.

We buy them for the format because it suits us, but if we do not care for the stories contained within, we will not buy them.

There are a lot of SPawn trades, but I would never buy them because I dont like Spawn.... Im done.
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#134630 - 01/09/04 07:34 PM Re: Question for Peter David
Matches Malone Offline
Member

Registered: 10/29/02
Posts: 310
Keep in mind that the DC OGN's at the $25 price point are usually 96 pages. Most tpb's are significantly longer than that. If you up it to 144 pages, an OGN would probably be $30 or more.
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#134631 - 01/09/04 08:06 PM Re: Question for Peter David
Rod Odom Offline
Member

Registered: 06/16/03
Posts: 202
Quote:
Originally posted by cactusmaac:
So which monthly series was subsidising Neil Gaiman's Endless Nights OGN?


I think it's been made quite clear that it is the total earnings from the entire DC monthly line that is supporting the OGNs at a lower price point

Quote:

I'd find it rather bizarre if a company chose to publish less profitable OGNs if their monthlies were making them the dough. Why not just publish more monthlies?


I have no experience whatsover in the publishing industry, but from my time as a business student I would guess that DC is chasing that extra buck that can be made from OGNs. It's like the ultra-luxury car market that big auto-manufacturers pursue, which is a relatively very small part of their total earnings but maintains company prestige.

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#134632 - 01/09/04 08:16 PM Re: Question for Peter David
Rod Odom Offline
Member

Registered: 06/16/03
Posts: 202
Quote:
Originally posted by NatGertler:
Ummm, every profitable project pulls their earnings upwards. That's kinda the definition of "profitable" and "earnings".


The accountants would be looking at the average return on investment of each project. If the monthlies were doing poorly, the bean-counters would question why DC was charging so little on marginal products like OGNs.

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#134633 - 01/09/04 10:29 PM Re: Question for Peter David
Shoegaze99 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 5325
Loc: Not Applicable, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by justapilgrim32:
but this being an art based, asthetically appreciated field, i just find it an ugly fact that anyone would exclude a work solely based on what format it arrives in.

That's a nice fantasy and all, the sort of pipe dream that sounds real nice - "It's all about the story, innit?" - but the truth of the matter is, Art or not, format and presentation matter.

The most wonderful album of the last 100 years could be recorded tomorrow, and if were only released on 8-track, nobody would hear it. I am a devoted music fan with a vast library in a wide array of formats, and I would ignore the release. There are simply too many wonderful options out there to worry about chasing that album down, no matter how good it is ... but it's all about the music, right?

A groundbreaking, entertaining, moving film could be made tomorrow of just the sort I'd like, but if it only came out on Betamax or some outdated real-to-reel, it would be seen by few. Why chase down that film, no matter how great, when there are so many other great films yet to be seen ... but it's all about the story, right?

The Greatest Novel Ever Written would not be read if it only existed in hand-written looseleaf form.

And so on. I think you get the point. As nice as it sounds to say that what matters is "great stories, no matter what format they arise in," it's simply not a realistic ideal. It's a pipe dream. A nice sentiment that ultimately falls flat on its face.

As has been said in this and other threads, at the moment there are so many great trades I've yet to read, and won't have a chance to anytime soon, that the idea that I might miss a really good yarn in monthly format doesn't worry me much.

Yes, it's the story that matters ... in the format I desire.
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#134634 - 01/10/04 03:40 AM Re: Question for Peter David
NatGertler Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/99
Posts: 4618
Quote:
Originally posted by Rod Odom:
I think it's been made quite clear that it is the total earnings from the entire DC monthly line that is supporting the OGNs at a lower price point
It has? Funny, I don't see that. There are other publishers that put out primarily OGNs without significant support from pamphlets. Seems to me likely that sales of the OGNs are supporting the OGNs.
Quote:
If the monthlies were doing poorly, the bean-counters would question why DC was charging so little on marginal products like OGNs.
If the bean counters don't understand that profit is often increased by reducing retail price and thus increasing sales, then they had best go back to bean counting school. (As for "marginal products", I'd find that a difficult description to apply to, say, the Sandman OGN, a strong selling follow-up to a strong-selling line.)

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