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#171056 - 05/04/06 02:58 PM Re: more fandom stuff
Shoegaze99 Offline
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Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 5325
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Quote:
Originally posted by X-height:
I put escapist in quotes the first time around, which I consider a putdown in the same way that one finds it movie reviews as material to be dismissed were it not for box office sales.
Then with all due respect, that's on you, not me. I don't consider escapism a bad thing at all and don't believe I implied as much. I'm a great fan of escapist entertainment and always have been. Acknowledging that it is what it is doesn't at all mean I disrespect or dislike it. So, respectfully, if you found that to be a putdown I'm afraid the insult stems from your own predisposition to take it as such, not in any judgement I made.
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#171057 - 05/04/06 03:34 PM Re: more fandom stuff
X-height Offline
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Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3923
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
They say context is all - well maybe not all but in my post I note that you do posit it as an either/or which excludes the concept of a great work of art which happens to be escapist.

or at least unclear about it being part of the larger set with "preferring"

My own take is that it is an unuseful term except in context of description with other genre forms.

It is said here that 'boring' is imprecise so too escapism because I agree making "an argument why those strengths are more worthy of respect" requires it.

Dumas is calling for just that from what I have read, that people choose carefully their words if they want to persuade rather than rely upon preconceptions to score points
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#171058 - 05/04/06 04:48 PM Re: more fandom stuff
gene phillips Offline
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Registered: 09/30/99
Posts: 5910
Loc: Houston, TX
Shoegaze said to X:

"You'd be doing me a favor if you could point out where I put down other works of art, because I certainly have no recollection of doing so."

I thought this was a little condescending:

"Attempting to create work that moves beyond mere escapism and trying to tackle themes and issues more weighty themes than fights?"

Maybe it's the "mere" that does it, even though I do believe that you're trying to accord to "escapist literature" its just desserts. But I think you imply, as X says, a superior/inferior relationship that isn't justified across the board.

I can't come up with a substitute, non-pejorative term for "escapist lit" that will please everyone, but suppose that I have and we all agree to call it "[blank] literature," lit which is characterized by having [blank]. Unlike the higher forms of literature, which can get away with not having [blank], [blanklit] must have [blank] to appeal to its audience. However, I suggest that someone who is considered [blanklit], such as Jack Kirby, may actually be more complex in some senses than someone aspiring to be "real lit," like Pekar. If I am right, then the superior/interior relationship would not apply across the board.

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#171059 - 05/04/06 05:05 PM Re: more fandom stuff
X-height Offline
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Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3923
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
accept no substitution, escapism is a fine word to contrast documantarian or journalistic, but it becomes tricky when it means fictive realism I don't accept as realistic.
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"The folly of mistaking a paradox for a discovery, a metaphor for a proof, a torrent of verbiage for a spring of capital truths, and oneself for an oracle, is inborn in us." (Paul Valery)

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#171060 - 05/05/06 09:25 AM Re: more fandom stuff
madget Offline
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Registered: 05/11/01
Posts: 4839
But why would anyone want to "escape" into something "depressing" -- ?

What's there to like about something that doesn't make you feel good -- ?

Making you feel good is the primary function of art, no?

K

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#171061 - 05/05/06 09:31 AM Re: more fandom stuff
snoid Offline
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Registered: 02/26/99
Posts: 2205
"Making you feel good is the primary function of art, no?"

No, the primary function of art is to make you feel. Good , bad, sad, mad, depressed, happy, and so on.
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#171062 - 05/05/06 09:33 AM Re: more fandom stuff
madget Offline
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Registered: 05/11/01
Posts: 4839
Why would I want to feel sad?

K

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#171063 - 05/05/06 09:37 AM Re: more fandom stuff
snoid Offline
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Registered: 02/26/99
Posts: 2205
Quote:
Originally posted by madget:
Why would I want to feel sad?

K
Does life always have to been one big happy party?
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Words fail the system people only know words as a cover up tool in order to describe things.
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#171064 - 05/05/06 09:40 AM Re: more fandom stuff
madget Offline
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Registered: 05/11/01
Posts: 4839
I thought art was about escaping life?

K

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#171065 - 05/05/06 09:40 AM Re: more fandom stuff
Shoegaze99 Offline
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Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 5325
Loc: Not Applicable, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by madget:
Why would I want to feel sad?

K
There is something very life-affirming in a film that can make you cry with sadness. People love tear-jerkers, probably because feeling sad is still feeling.
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