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#171526 - 06/26/06 12:22 PM Re: more fandom stuff
gene phillips Offline
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Registered: 09/30/99
Posts: 5910
Loc: Houston, TX
'""Please show me where I said that the good critic should cite "every example.""

It was in your post immediately preceding mine where I claimed that you said such a thing. In the ether.'

I take this as your tacit admission that I did not claim that the critic should cite "every example," and that you simply made it up for a weak rhetorical point. Thanks for clearing that up.

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#171527 - 06/26/06 12:27 PM Re: more fandom stuff
gene phillips Offline
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Registered: 09/30/99
Posts: 5910
Loc: Houston, TX
CR: "The emotivist theory of art has had its day. It simply doesn't account for what's art or even what's valuable in art. It says many things worth considering, that are right, but it's not any where close to being the best theory of art, much less a sufficiently encompassing theory. This is a pretty standard view of the theory, hardly controversial. It's closest analogy these days is the evolutionary theory, which I have all kinds of problems with, but you didn't ask about that."

You will have to cite something more sophisticated than the Holcombe piece to prove that, as many of his views are not supportable, and also prove that at no time has any literary theory "come back from the dead," as it were. The example of John Gardner and his neo-Victorian moralizing would be one prominent example of such a recrudescence.

"I use them as needed."

Certainly not when requested, anyway.

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#171528 - 06/26/06 12:42 PM Re: more fandom stuff
gene phillips Offline
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Registered: 09/30/99
Posts: 5910
Loc: Houston, TX
Quote:
Originally posted by Dumas:
Humor strips and adaptations of well-known fairy tales are still a lot closer to mainstream comics than they are to, say, Dave McKean's semiautobiographical stories about the people who hung out at his favorite bar.

Most indie comics have more in common with all those low budget indie films about people having relationship problems one might see on The Sundance Channel than they do with those early comic strips at that site.
Dumas,
I think that some of the early quasi-literary attempts at using the comics-form could be seen in a spectrum with some of the altcomics of today, which aren't purely represented by the "day in the life" approach you describe above. I could see some points in common between the etchings of William Hogarth and SOME of the American undergrounds,

We do agree that that a lot of the stuff to which, say, Art Spiegelman gives his imprimatur (e.g., IN THE SHADOW OF NO TOWERS) is simply mainstream stuff of its time. To pick examples from a later and better-known period, I don't see anything in THE KATZENJAMMER KIDS that makes it greater "Art" than BATMAN, except in the sense that both are great "pop art."

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#171529 - 06/26/06 12:44 PM Re: more fandom stuff
Charles Reece Online   crying
Member

Registered: 08/18/99
Posts: 10002
Loc: us of fuckin' a
"(b) a preponderance of good stories in medium x does not make it superior in any way to medium y, which cannot boast the same number of good stories."

I never said anything of the sort as it makes no sense. "Despite x's being better than y, it is no way superior to y" is just dumb.

""I take this as your tacit admission that I did not claim that the critic should cite "every example,""

It wasn't tacit, because, as I was saying, you manufactured the comment.
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#171530 - 06/26/06 03:02 PM Re: more fandom stuff
Dumas Offline
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Registered: 07/20/99
Posts: 6777
Loc: Melnibone
You know what would make this a cool thread? No Charles Reece.
_________________________
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-- comedian Todd Barry, on buying razor blades

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#171531 - 06/27/06 10:03 AM Re: more fandom stuff
gene phillips Offline
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Registered: 09/30/99
Posts: 5910
Loc: Houston, TX
Quote:
Originally posted by Charles Reece:
"(b) a preponderance of good stories in medium x does not make it superior in any way to medium y, which cannot boast the same number of good stories."

I never said anything of the sort as it makes no sense. "Despite x's being better than y, it is no way superior to y" is just dumb.

""I take this as your tacit admission that I did not claim that the critic should cite "every example,""

It wasn't tacit, because, as I was saying, you manufactured the comment.
I'll let the first part lie because I have no idea what you're saying.

I'll let the second part lie because you don't know what you said.

Someone stick a fork in the thread; I think it's done.

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#171532 - 06/27/06 12:25 PM Re: more fandom stuff
Charles Reece Online   crying
Member

Registered: 08/18/99
Posts: 10002
Loc: us of fuckin' a
1. Translation: you're making things up.
2. Here's what I said:
Quote:
I suspect you have in mind that good criticism has to play some sort of fanboyish association game, like mentioning every example of alternate history fiction which appeared before whatever alternate history story the critic is currently considering. That can be of use, but isn't necessary. If, as you say, there is a "genre in itself," then one doesn't have to name the particular examples to discuss the attributes defining the genre (e.g., one can readily name defining attributes of the Western without mentioning any examples).
3. Yep.
_________________________
The Gospel, wherein much Truth is written.

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#171533 - 06/27/06 07:01 PM Re: more fandom stuff
Dumas Offline
Member

Registered: 07/20/99
Posts: 6777
Loc: Melnibone
You know what would make this a cool thread? No Charles Reece.
_________________________
It's probably best to buy name brand razor blades.
-- comedian Todd Barry, on buying razor blades

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#171534 - 06/27/06 07:14 PM Re: more fandom stuff
Les McClaine_dup1 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 579
Loc: Waltham USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Dumas:
You know what would make this a cool thread? No Charles Reece.
Jesus Christ, grow up and stop being such a little bitch.

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#171535 - 06/28/06 03:29 PM Re: more fandom stuff
Dumas Offline
Member

Registered: 07/20/99
Posts: 6777
Loc: Melnibone
You know what would make this a cool thread? No Les McClaine.
_________________________
It's probably best to buy name brand razor blades.
-- comedian Todd Barry, on buying razor blades

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