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#18440 - 03/14/06 11:06 PM Re: Eleven Whole Days...
Keith Klein Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/15/03
Posts: 10
Loc: Chicago
Gnat, move out of your parents basement. Start your life. Please.

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#18441 - 03/14/06 11:54 PM Re: Eleven Whole Days...
Wil Radcliffe Offline
Member

Registered: 01/20/02
Posts: 486
Loc: Fremont, IN
Keith, if any of your recent comments were directed at me, I think you're looking for a fight were there is none. I never said you didn't care about Jen's Grandmother dying. I simply observed that your comment on this board seemed rather rude. Perhaps that wasn't your intention, but the impression I got was you considered the death an inconvenience for yourself.

And really, I don't think anyone aside from Nat was arguing with you. In fact, if you reread the posts, I believe you'll find most of us were rather supportive and sympathetic. And as far as Nat goes, he's a very respected and experienced creator/publisher himself. Instead of arguing with him, you'd be a lot better off asking him for advice.

Again, I'm not trying to fight with you. Just trying to offer some advice. Take it for what it's worth.
_________________________
Noggle Stones

"In the tradition of Tolkien and Rowling, Wil carves out his own territory in the fantasy genre with Noggle Stones." ~ Ernie Colon

"It's great fun!" ~ Barry Cunningham, The Chicken House

http://www.nogglestones.com

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#18442 - 03/15/06 12:05 AM Re: Eleven Whole Days...
NatGertler Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/99
Posts: 4618
Quote:
Originally posted by Keith Klein:
I did this book for fun...I never anticipated that there would be so much unfun stuff associated with something I used to consider fun...namely comics.
When you move from creating comics to selling comics, you're moving into the realm of business. It's work. That should not come as a surprise.
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My advise to anyone who wants to do their own comicis is, Don't!
Mr. Sim! Mr. Smith! Mr. Moore! Save yourselves!
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people can't read a post without spinning everything I wrote so that now I'm the dick.
Have you stopped and considered that perhaps you are "the dick"? You say you're "relaying what happened", but the proximate cause of your post seems to be something that didn't happen - namely, your article being taken down. You react rudely repeatedly. You act as though things are due to you because you published two issues of a comic on a not-exactly-compelling schedule, and seem aghast to find that the world does not treat you the same way as companies that publish about the same quantity of distinct issues (and likely a far greater quantity of copies) per day. And the target of your criticisms is the Pulse, who have posted an article for each issue you've published.
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I chose to publish my own book so that some editor didn't turn it into mush to please the masses.
I suspect you would have been spared that; I don't know of many editors looking for projects where the creator puts out an issue every 2.5 years.

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#18443 - 03/15/06 12:12 AM Re: Eleven Whole Days...
Wil Radcliffe Offline
Member

Registered: 01/20/02
Posts: 486
Loc: Fremont, IN
Keith: I just read your article. Your concept sounds interesting and I wish you the best of luck.

However, I don't feel you should be angry at Jen or the Pulse. Jen was nice enough to repost an interview you did for the first issue along with your article about the second. The interview for the first issue is a great victory in itself. None of the news sites has ever interviewed me before (not that I'm complaining... I'm a boring subject matter.) Lots of creators would love to have an interview like that.


Again, best of luck. But try to keep your temper under control. Finding offense where none was intended isn't going to help your cause.
_________________________
Noggle Stones

"In the tradition of Tolkien and Rowling, Wil carves out his own territory in the fantasy genre with Noggle Stones." ~ Ernie Colon

"It's great fun!" ~ Barry Cunningham, The Chicken House

http://www.nogglestones.com

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#18444 - 03/15/06 08:57 AM Re: Eleven Whole Days...
Not From Around Here Offline
Member

Registered: 06/20/05
Posts: 1489
Jen, if you're reading this thread, please accept my condolences for your loss. I hope you have lots of good memories of your grandmother to treasure.

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#18445 - 03/15/06 09:59 AM Re: Eleven Whole Days...
Elliot Kane Offline
Member

Registered: 08/17/01
Posts: 2337
Loc: London, England
Quote:
Originally posted by Not From Around Here:
Jen, if you're reading this thread, please accept my condolences for your loss. I hope you have lots of good memories of your grandmother to treasure.
Seconded frown
_________________________
Elliot's forum - The Chaos Cascade - welcomes all nice people.

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#18446 - 03/15/06 03:38 PM Re: Eleven Whole Days...
Johanna Offline
Member

Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 1026
With a "the world owes me" attitude like that, I'm not at all surprised that press aren't falling over themselves to work with you.

You obviously carry grudges, since you launch into a big story about how hard it was to get your puff piece posted after it's already been put up. You don't seem to realize just how many submissions big sites get regularly, since you expect her to do the work and keep track of what you're looking for.

If you want press, you should make it as easy for them as possible, be polite and nice to work with, and quit expecting white glove treatment. There are tons and tons of people just like you out there, and the ones with a helpful attitude are going to be the ones who get noticed. With a track record of two comic issues in three years, you're lucky you got any coverage.

Blaming a journalist for poor sales and making you want to get out of the business is just stupid.
_________________________
Johanna

Recommendations of Comics Worth Reading - www.comicsworthreading.com

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#18447 - 03/15/06 06:32 PM Re: Eleven Whole Days...
Lawson Offline
Member

Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 11978
Loc: Lexington, Ky.
Nat's been chiding me lately about my attitude.

Whew.

Goodbye, spotlight! At least I didn't yell at the woman who just lost her grandmother.

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#18448 - 03/15/06 09:07 PM Re: Eleven Whole Days...
Keith Klein Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/15/03
Posts: 10
Loc: Chicago
Quote from Jen today:

"you're not off the frontpage because no one wrote a message. Every week I get rid of a lot of stuff on the homepage, most of it previews. If I didn't like your stuff I wouldn't have reposted the interview we did at the bottom of the preview to try and get more attention to your book."

Your entire arguement, dear friends, that "this is how message boards work" is now proven wrong!

"Yell at the woman who just lost her grandmother?"

Hysterical. You should get a job at FOX, spinning the news, Lawson!

You're a pro among Gnats! Listening to the spin and parroting what you read from the other Goosesteppers here. Congrats!

Will, you are correct, the "fight" wasn't directed toward at you at all. Gnat's the only one my comments were aimed at.

This is great! Look at all the illiterates making comics today. I know our school systems suck, but I never imagined they were producing "work" like you people. You've given the word, 'Daft' new depth.

It's apparent that only a few people here can actually read and understand what is written at all....that must be why you read...comics. They're simple to read and understand and the pictures is nice too.

Jen wrote me and said: you should have a fan go post a comment so it gets bumped back up again...

My fans already have their books, Jen...they've had them for nearly four months. They aren't going to come back to the Pulse now just to post about what they read months ago. They are waiting for my next project BY NOW! What is so hard to understand?

Today, I got an email from one of the dozen or so who ordered my book right away:

"I got  the comics. It's really good and room for more story, I hope that you will continue the story in comic book format. Keep it up, I would buy more comic books of Autumn Moon. Thank you"

What it comes down to is, you people have too much time on your hands.

Every other one of you people have read into or spun every thing I wrote...or, in Johanna's case. made up her own interpretation of things entirely... "World owes me attitude"...? OK...whatever, girl! Make up your own quotes until they fit your skewed view of things...nice.

It's funny to listen to you come at me like I don't care her grandma died. That's great! My point, as simple as it was (apparently not for some) was that her reason for the additional two week delay in posting my article was due to a death...but other posts went up in that time frame. Was mine somehow less important, even though it had already been sitting around for three months? I guess so.

See...it's simple when you try and understand.

Nat and Johanna, you are truly...Amazing! Do they still teach rational thought in college? Or has the age of reason truly come to an end and spin replaced it, as it has in your case?

And, Nat, I have news for you, buddy...You are the reason I'm independent...so I don't have to listen to or put up with know-it-all's like you! Actually, like most know-it-all's, you only think you know it all...you don't. I'm not "looking to work with any editors"...or publishers or any dimwitted know-it-all's either, pal. Especially ones that can't read. I'm an independent, underground artist.

Sorry, you have no dominion over me;-)

In fact, if it meant that my book never saw the light of day unless I though or acted like you or unless I strived for whatever platitude you think you are on (or anyone else's platitude other than my own), I would stop doing my own stories and stop drawing altogether. Thank god it doesn't! Your opinion doesn't even come up on my radar, sweetie.

You also use three established comic artists as your argument against my statement, "My advise to anyone who wants to do their own comicis is, Don't!" Where did you learn to debate from...Bill O'Reilly? I was referring to independent newcomers like me, Boo! Lame, man...lame.

As for me taking 2.5 years between books...I started a family right after I began work on issue 2...we had a baby, without health insurance coverage, which cost a lot. Then, my wife lost her job and was unable to get another decent paying one for some time...like a lot of other americans are going through right now, Nat. My comic and art sales (without advertising revenue behind them and independent of jerks like you) kept us going, but not enough to afford another book, too. So I did other things that were just as important to my goals. I did research for two other stories I'm working on and fought to try and keep George Bush from getting re-elected. Important stuff like that, gringo! So, go stuff it where you like to stuff things so much.

AND In case you hadn't noticed, up there in your ivory tower, Nat, the economy sucks right now. Not too much money left for frivelous stuff like comics, art and the like anymore...and it's just going to get worse. Maybe not for you, on your cloud, though. Can you even write sentences or can you only quote and remark? Please, don't answer...I don't really care...nor will I be back here to check for your response.

And, Johanna, I hate to break it to you, Honey, but I did do this just for me...and no one owes me anything. Sorry to disappoint. As far as grudges go? I have a special place in my heart for people who can't read and understand sentences without making up their own endings. Wink. I never blamed a journalist for anything, girly.

Three months ago, when my book first came out, my fans would have been all over the message boards...but why are they going to go post stuff about something they read months ago on a mainstream comic book site...they are horror fans and underground comic fans to boot. The Pulse isn't their scene. I wanted to attract new readers. If Jen wanted to, she could have recognized this simple comic world factoid back in January.

And not one of you have said, "Wow, that sucks that your book has been out for over three months and Jen just took her time posting it...and she never contacted you about the alleged missing copy."

Did any of you actually asked Jen why she took three months to post my article? Nah, you' d rather just make things up "in quotes" in your interpretation about me and send the rest of what I said down the memory hole.

So it's FINAL...I was removed from the front page...after eleven days...by Jen. I'm vindicated. And I didn't "Yell at the woman who just lost her grandmother"! Man, do you geeks owe me an apology! Don't bother...you're ignorance deters me from actually seeking any real understanding of you.

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#18449 - 03/15/06 10:18 PM Re: Eleven Whole Days...
NatGertler Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/99
Posts: 4618
Quote:
Originally posted by Keith Klein:
Your entire arguement, dear friends, that "this is how message boards work" is now proven wrong!
I'm not sure which page you're talking about, but you're not on the first The Pulse message board page because no one has responded to your article on the message board. Really.

But again, as it was pointed out, your article was not taken down. It is still there .

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You're a pro among Gnats!
Yes, yes, we get it. You have delved into your sophisticated wit and found that there's a way to make fun of my name.
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It's apparent that only a few people here can actually read and understand what is written at all....that must be why you read...comics. They're simple to read and understand and the pictures is nice too.
Good to know that you hold the reading of comics in such disrespect.
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Jen wrote me and said: you should have a fan go post a comment so it gets bumped back up again...
Why, look! Jen knows how a message board works as well.
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My fans already have their books, Jen...they've had them for nearly four months.
Hey, aren't you the guy who said you were getting steady sales while the article was up? In fact, didn't you just quote one of those folks? I'm not sure why you have trouble understanding that someone who has something to say about your book might have something to say about your book and might be able to say it on the message board.
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Every other one of you people have read into or spun every thing I wrote...or, in Johanna's case. made up her own interpretation of things entirely... "World owes me attitude"...?
Why, yes. How else would you describe someone who starts an attack message thread going after someone who has helped him because he thinks they could've helped him more?

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Was mine somehow less important, even though it had already been sitting around for three months?
Does it shock you to think that something might be more important than your article about your comic book which had come out months before?
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I'm an independent, underground artist.
So if you're so "independent", why are you acting so dependent on The Pulse? Oh, that's right, they only helped scare up sales for you, and didn't do enough of that for your liking.
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In fact, if it meant that my book never saw the light of day unless I though or acted like you or unless I strived for whatever platitude you think you are on (or anyone else's platitude other than my own), I would stop doing my own stories and stop drawing altogether.
Ummm, "platitude"? Are you sure that's the word you want?
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Your opinion doesn't even come up on my radar, sweetie.
He says, as he types another long-winded complaint about my opinion...
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You also use three established comic artists as your argument against my statement
Why, yes. Do you think they were born "established comic artists"? Do you not realize that at some point they were newcomers, that had they taken the "don't" advice they wouldn't have ended up becoming established, doing long self-published runs, gaining critical acclaim and respectable financial rewards?
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I was referring to independent newcomers like me, Boo!
It depends on the definition of a newcomer. But yes, I will agree... folks who are like you should not take that route.
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AND In case you hadn't noticed, up there in your ivory tower, Nat, the economy sucks right now. Not too much money left for frivelous stuff like comics, art and the like anymore...
Money spent on comics has been growing for years now. Or if you meant that publishing comics is a frivolous thing to spend money on, it certainly can be. But if you want to be treated like a serious business, then no, it's not frivolous at all.
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And not one of you have said, "Wow, that sucks that your book has been out for over three months and Jen just took her time posting it...and she never contacted you about the alleged missing copy."
You seemed to be throwing enough of a pity party for yourself in that regard, and joining in on your little rampage against Jen for not having done everything for you that you might want, that wouldn't be the right thing to do.
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you're ignorance deters me from actually seeking any real understanding of you.
Seemingly, the whole world is too ignorant for you to understand it... but of course, the problem could never be with you.

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