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#201647 - 10/13/08 10:16 PM Re: Why Alan Moore stopped writing Supreme?
Peter Urkowitz Offline
Member

Registered: 08/28/00
Posts: 1910
Loc: Salem, MA, USA
I found another interesting bit of data: Tom Strong #1 was published by ABC in June 1999, the same month that Supreme: The Return #2 was published by Awesome!

The ABC books weren't even conceived until after Alan Moore and his co-creators learned that Awesome Entertainment was going out of business, and they stopped work on Supreme. So the six issues of Supreme: the Return were probably all completed during 1998, and then Liefeld sat on them for over a year while he cobbled together the printing fees for one last stab at publishing.

So the story of Alan Moore being responsible for the cut-and-paste final pages of StR #2 on account of late scripting, that story is false. I'm NOT saying that Starlin is lying; more likely he was lied to by his editor and publisher at Awesome, and he was just passing along what he was told. Why they couldn't find somebody to actually draw those pages during the 15-month hiatus, that remains a mystery. But my best guess is that they couldn't afford to pay anyone to do it.

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#201648 - 10/14/08 12:50 AM Re: Why Alan Moore stopped writing Supreme?
NEFARIOUS Offline
Member

Registered: 12/09/01
Posts: 731
Malvin, thanks for posting the original art. I couldn't quite make out all of the note but still cool.

Peter Urkowitz, that sucks about the Supreme finale. Liefeld does weird stuff like that. In judgment day 1-3 it's numbered ALPHA, OMEGA, and 3.

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#201649 - 10/14/08 03:26 AM Re: Why Alan Moore stopped writing Supreme?
Malvin Offline
Junior member

Registered: 02/08/05
Posts: 2
Peter - I don't know what else to say, just repeated what was said to me.

Nefarious - thanks! Here is the text:

Dear Norm,

I changed my style on this issue and I would really appreciate if if you could do an inking style that similar to Kevin Nowlan

HA I forgot what that said, thanks for making me read it. The Kevin Nowlan comment was funny! =)

In case you didn't surf around that site, I have tons of other Alan Moore Supreme Original art:

Published Covers and Pinups:

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryRoom.asp?GSub=54719

Published Interiors:

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryRoom.asp?GSub=2408

Sketches and non Alan Moore Supreme pages:

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryRoom.asp?GSub=39212

Malvin

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#201650 - 10/14/08 04:43 PM Re: Why Alan Moore stopped writing Supreme?
Peter Urkowitz Offline
Member

Registered: 08/28/00
Posts: 1910
Loc: Salem, MA, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Malvin:
Peter - I don't know what else to say, just repeated what was said to me.
And thank you for doing so, Malvin! It was an interesting peek at the inner workings of Awesome, even if seen through a foggy lens from a distance, as it were.

This thread started with some questions about the accuracy of stuff Rob Liefeld had said about Supreme and Alan Moore (I think it was in this interview originally). So that's what we've been trying to do here, take public statements and try to figure out the truth behind them, not necessarily taking them at face value. The more information the better, from whatever source, for a project like that.

And thanks also for the links to the original art, and for transcribing that note from Joe Bennett, too. Good stuff there!

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#201651 - 10/15/08 12:29 AM Re: Why Alan Moore stopped writing Supreme?
Joe Lee Online   content
Member

Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 8646
Loc: Ohio
Lying in the Gutters this week had a thing about new "Top Ten" and "Tom Strong" series from Wildstorm.

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#201652 - 10/16/08 05:21 PM Re: Why Alan Moore stopped writing Supreme?
NEFARIOUS Offline
Member

Registered: 12/09/01
Posts: 731
I thought Alan Moore left Wildstorm/DC? How can they publish his characters?

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#201653 - 10/16/08 06:09 PM Re: Why Alan Moore stopped writing Supreme?
Peter Urkowitz Offline
Member

Registered: 08/28/00
Posts: 1910
Loc: Salem, MA, USA
In order to get a better page rate upfront, Moore and his collaborators sold the rights to the ABC characters to Wildstorm when they first set up the deal. Would they have done that if they knew that Jim Lee would turn around and sell Wildstorm to DC? Maybe not, but they were persuaded to stay on once DC was the new owner, provided that DC didn't make itself known too obviously.

Various "firewalls" were put in place, to maintain the fiction that ABC was independent of DC. The DC Bullet would not appear on the covers of the books. Checks paid to the creators would not come from DC accounts. And so on. The system worked fairly well for a few years, actually longer than the initial contracts, which were only for a year or two. But Moore was eventually bothered by too much interference from DC, leading him to pull up sticks again and head for greener pastures. Fortunately, the various ABC series all reached natural ending points by that time.

Presumably Moore and the other creators still get royalty payments for the new series, but they don't have any veto power over whether they get made or not. I'm glad to see that Zander Cannon and Gene Ha are doing the new Top 10 series, though. From the first issue, it looks pretty good, even without Moore.

One exception to the ABC deal was "The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen," which Alan Moore and Kevin O'Neill kept the rights to, leaving them free to take it to Top Shelf for the next volume.

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#201654 - 10/16/08 11:18 PM Re: Why Alan Moore stopped writing Supreme?
NEFARIOUS Offline
Member

Registered: 12/09/01
Posts: 731
That's good that the current Top 10 team is doing something but damn, it's like Moore hardly owns anything that he's done. Tom Strong, Promethea, V for Vendetta, Jack B. Quick, Grey Shirt...wow.

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#527531 - 10/24/08 01:34 PM Re: Why Alan Moore stopped writing Supreme? [Re: NEFARIOUS]
Stephen R Bissette Offline
Member

Registered: 11/27/98
Posts: 834
Loc: wilmington, VT USA
Those were Alan's choices, post-1987, Nefarious. So it goes.

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#527737 - 10/27/08 03:18 PM Re: Why Alan Moore stopped writing Supreme? [Re: Stephen R Bissette]
stanleylieber Offline
Member

Registered: 02/13/07
Posts: 963
http://cerebusfangirl.com/artists/nftp/95.php

Quote:

Copyright 1987 Dave Sim

Aloha (again).

The very odd thing about Howard Chaykin, Frank Miller, Marv Wolfman and Alan Moore announcing their intention to create no new work for DC because of the handling of the recent ratings issue is that (lam sure) no one at DC has the slightest idea what they have done wrong; why their post-Crisis golden age is so suddenly and so seriously crippled. It is hard for fans to understand just how inept this company is since the fans have demonstrated such a voracious need for an alternative teat now that they feel can’t, in good conscience, rub their cheeks against Marvel’s chair leg any more (to mix a metaphor).

I was telling one of the DC execs (you know he’s an exec because his name is on everything) at Matt Wagner’s End of Mage party that DC was blowing it. (Please bear in mind that the individual in question is a sweet guy and I consider him a friend). I told him that wherever Frank Miller and Alan Moore are at the moment, that is where Comic Books are; as a medium, but, more important to DC, as an industry. At this point, I continued, DC is still treating their creative people as secondary manufacturers. They are not consulted on print runs or anything of importance to the business side. It was Frank Miller and Alan Moore who gave DC their present credibility and they were still considered little better than field hands. Use ‘em up and when they lose it throw ‘em away. Plenty more where that came from.

By this time I was ranting. But we’ve got you, I said. By this time next year Frank and Alan will be publishing their own work. I am sure of it. All that is needed is one public fart-at-the-table and the jig is up. DC is going to learn that not everyone in this business can be bought for nickels and dimes and kept out in the fields at back-(and mind-)breaking labour for decade upon decade. DC hasn’t changed a bit in fifty years. Everyone there somehow believes that they are the ones creating all those comics on the wall. And why not? By law they are. By law the tenth floor of 666 Fifth Avenue created Superman.

At this point my friend’s face had become a bit grim to say the least. I reassured him that everyone up at DC is a nice person (which I sincerely think they are) and he brightened visibly. Although I was still ranting this threw me off-balance. I realized I was never going to explain in such a way that he could understand exactly how thoroughly DC misunderstands creative people. They talk about negotiating but what they mean is “This is what we’re offering you. You can have a lot of it now and less later or you can have less of it now and more later.” That is hardly negotiation. Their way of encouraging good work is to take top rank talent out for expensive dinners. They really haven’t the faintest idea why the best lobster dinner at the best restaurant in the best of cities is not a reward to a creative individual - that it merely reinforces the Jester in the Court of the Crimson Queen syndrome. You know talking to Herself that she considers you countless rungs down the ladder from the rarefied atmosphere in which she functions, socially or otherwise.

What she (and the entire DC hierarchy) has failed to understand is that this is no longer a corporate but a creative world. DC needs Alan Moore and Frank Miller a lot more than either gentlemen needs a dinosaur pimple on Warner Communications’ butt.

And so, in the Court of the Crimson Queen comes the rifle crack of the basest kind of flatulence. A ratings system for comics --- a way of forestalling any hypothetical attack by the mindless on the gutless.

Not being courtiers, hangers-on, attendants, underlings, field hands, footmen, servants or slaves Frank, Alan, Mary and Howard exchange glances and hurriedly leave the room.

And none can tell the Crimson Queen (who is now quite crimson indeed) why it is that all those lovely creative fellows have left.

Nor when they might return.

She chews her food carefully and ponders.

To no avail.

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