Bump.

Maybe there's someone new (or old) out there who might have someting to add--so BUMP!

Having just discovered this thread (been out of touch for quite awhile), I'd like to interject a few notes. In addition to being a publisher (Caliber) for a decade or so, I was also a comic book retailer for about 18 years, starting in the early 1980's.

Since this is an old board with little activity, I'll just throw in a few mentions as it may be a dead issue.

I agree that Carol Kalish's death changed the industry. I know Gary Groth's contention was that she sold shit and I don't disagree with that but she did a lot on the business side of things (and of course, it was so we could sell more of the shit but it was beneficial overall). I had many in depth conversations with her and her contention was titles like the Civil War, Dinosaurs, and even Barbie was what the market needed. And of course, all the Marvel books but I always felt that she knew it was the currency of the time so it had to be played. Maybe she was being pushed out at Marvel but I think she had enough clout that she would've continued with someone else. I really do think she would've made an impact.

I dealt with Bob Hellems when I first started and he was a great help...a much more hands on approach was available then. Bob was the local (Detroit)warehouse for Russ Ernst's Glenwood Distributors. I'm not sure if they were the first to do a trade show but it was the first I went to (in Las Vegas). I was also with Capital City for quite awhile but they had the archaic strategy at that time of having a local retailer man the warehouse and of course, the retailer happened to be my competition. (wondered why I never got all those copies of Dark Knight). But Capital grew fast and to me, was the best distributor. I can't fault Diamond as a publisher or a retailer though and they were always immensely fair.

The suggestion that retailers don't need distributors is laughable and I don't mean that as an insult to the person that suggested it. But when Marvel bought Heroes World and Diamond gobbled up some exclusives and Capital City was hanging on...the major complaint from most retailers that I heard was that they had to fill out three forms...and how much of a hassle it was. of course, the entire discount structure is what crippled stores but the bitch sessions were mainly for the hassles of three forms. And publishers want the distributors as well. Try collecting from 1,000 stores on product you sold to them.

There's lots more to be said but if the board is dead...well, the board is dead.

This is an interesting statement, and one that I've heard from many retailers. That seems as an almost shot in the foot move by retailers not to take the time to fill out three forms because it would surely (don't call me Shirley) seem that more competition would treat you better. And to complain about three forms always seemed to me to be a way of saying, "I don't want to be Bill Gates unless it's easy."

Of course now there is such a hold of the cojones by Diamond that it would be like a climb up Mt. Everest in the dead of winter to start up a distrubtion company; and yet I would imagine there are those out there that would certainly enjoy the struggle .

Do you think that the issue of filling out 3 forms would still exist today, or would the potential of easy online electronic ordering mitigate this ?

To a certain extent, sure, today's easier ordering technologies might make things more palatable to retailers.

But also, it's really not just the order form that these retailers are really complaining about. They're really complaining about the difficulty of being organized enough to manage multiple suppliers. So it's not just that they have to sit down and fill out order forms for Supplier A and Supplier B and Supplier C. It's also that they have to come up with a way to decide which products to order from Supplier A and from Supplier B and from Supplier C. And that they have to be able to remember (or easily look up) which product came (or, if misdelivered, should have come) from which supplier. And balance multiple suppliers' credit and freight policies. And so on, and so on, and so on.

Mind you, many good comics retailers happily do all those things and would, could, and do manage multiple supply chains. But for those who won't, can't, or don't--well--any complaints about the hassles of multiple order forms might just scratch the surface of their reluctance.

I do think that the dynamics of the entire market has changed and of course, so has the ordering capabilities especially with all the different computer options available.

Ordering from multiple vendors is far easier now and I think most of the retailers currently in business have already branched out in that direction and deal directly with many different manufacturers...whether it be toys, manga, or whatever. Even though I'm no longer a retailer and haven't been for a couple years now, generally I'd think that surviving retailers are much more business like and savvy than before. With UPC and spreadsheets, retailers can easily track sales and determine best ordering sources and profit ratios. Unfortunately, most don't have the opportunity to do so on much of their product line.

As for a new distributor coming into the fold, I would think its highly unlikely. Diamond having exclusive arrangments negates the revenue stream from those large suppliers so unless new publishers (or new product lines) pop up, a distributor just can't pull in enough dollars. FM International and Cold Cut have small niches established and I just can't see anyone putting a lot of money into a distribution company just to fight those two for that small market viability.

One possible source of new "publishing" is if some of the publishers utilize a tradtional publishing house for thier graphic novel lines in order to gain a stronger foothold in bookstore distribution. I'll use Image as an example simply because they're my current publisher on some titles. If they signed a deal with Random House for example to distribute to package graphic novels, even though the material is the same that is available to Diamond exclusive in comic format, that would be a different publisher on the trades, hence the exclusivity wouldn't apply. Maybe? I don't know...I would think so as the exclusivity is tied up to Image releases not the properties themselves.

But then again, I don't think Marvel and DC are tied up with Diamond for their bookstore distribution so perhaps that avenue is already accounted for.

When I was a publisher (and as a retailer), I never had a serious problem with Diamond and in fact, they were great to work with but I still feel that the whole situation bottlenecked the industry. When the distributor wars started, I think it had a serious impact on many retailers but I don't know if that is the case any more. I think a lack of growth in readership is the primary problem now...and for that, I don't know if anyone has a viable solution.

Actually, Marvel has been exclusive with Diamond's bookstore distribution arm for about a year now (although DC is not).

That's surprising. You think that Marvel with its Hollywood success could've arranged something on a more larger scale.

But then again, maybe working with Diamond is the path of least resistance and knowing that they at least understood the properties.

I don't know how Hollywood success has anything to do with bookstore distribution; book publishing and distribution operate on a scale largely beneath the film industry's notice.

That said, before switching their book distribution to Diamond Book Distributors, Marvel had previously used CDS Books , one of the major players in book distribution; I'm sure Marvel was reasonably dilligent in investigating all their options for book trade distribution, and there's no reason to think that the arrangement they have from Diamond isn't the best one for them.