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#208011 - 05/22/00 09:10 PM Comics Attitude shop in New Brunswick, NJ closes
jwasserman Offline
Member

Registered: 12/04/99
Posts: 44
Loc: Brooklyn, originally
Comics Attitude shop in New Brunswick, NJ closes.

I was surprised that this ten year old shop will close considering its well-stocked shelves and its helpful, knowledgable employees. More surprising is that it's a modern shop located on the county seat's main street just a block from the train station and a few blocks from Rutgers the State University of NJ.

I know that these are difficult times for comics retailers, but it's a shame this nice shop should close. The signs posted on the windows state that the lease was lost, but I suspect otherwise since no other location in New Brunswick will be sought.

Comic Attitudes (which used to have another outlet in Edison Township's Menlo Park Mall) will withdraw to its remaining location in Staten Island, NY. The New Brunswick, NJ shop on Albany Street between Neilson and George Streets will probably remain open until May 31, selling back issues at half price, current issues at 20% off, and paperbacks for a buck.

-JHW

------------------
-Jeffrey H. Wasserman
Visitors to my website are always welcome!
http://www.homestead.com/JachSpake/JachSpake.html
_________________________
-Jeffrey H. Wasserman
Visitors to my website are always welcome!
http://www.homestead.com/JachSpake/JachSpake.html

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#208012 - 05/22/00 10:27 PM Re: Comics Attitude shop in New Brunswick, NJ closes
RICK Offline
Member

Registered: 05/03/99
Posts: 1805
Loc: Whitesboro, New York, USA
Geez, another store closes. How sad. Does anyone know of any NEW stores opening anywhere?
_________________________
Rick Olney
Organized Readers of Comics Associated
http://www.ORCAfresh.net
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#208013 - 05/22/00 11:45 PM Re: Comics Attitude shop in New Brunswick, NJ closes
Phil Boyle Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 65
Loc: Orlando, Fl
I'm building my fifth store now, scheduled to open in West Orlando June 14th.
Unfortunatley, Comics Attitude is the second store I've heard of this week that has decided to close its doors.

Phil Boyle
Coliseum of Comics

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#208014 - 05/23/00 01:12 PM Re: Comics Attitude shop in New Brunswick, NJ closes
Empires Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/99
Posts: 357
Diamond Comics states new stores are opening weekly. (Yet to be seen). I can't consider 200 sq. ft. stores a real thrust into the industry.

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#208015 - 05/23/00 06:35 PM Re: Comics Attitude shop in New Brunswick, NJ closes
jwasserman Offline
Member

Registered: 12/04/99
Posts: 44
Loc: Brooklyn, originally
"Diamond Comics states new stores are opening weekly."

"There's a sucker born every minute." -PT Barnum

------------------
-Jeffrey H. Wasserman
Visitors to my website are always welcome!
http://www.homestead.com/JachSpake/JachSpake.html
_________________________
-Jeffrey H. Wasserman
Visitors to my website are always welcome!
http://www.homestead.com/JachSpake/JachSpake.html

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#208016 - 05/24/00 04:20 AM Re: Comics Attitude shop in New Brunswick, NJ closes
Jim Hanley Offline
Member

Registered: 06/19/99
Posts: 1313
Loc: NYC
Jeff:

Does this mean that you won't be making enquiries of Comic Attitudes' former landlord?
_________________________
"I love him like a brother. David Greenglass." -- Woody Allen - Crimes & Misdemeanors

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#208017 - 05/24/00 11:50 AM Re: Comics Attitude shop in New Brunswick, NJ closes
Joseph Morrison Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/26/00
Posts: 20
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
Yeah, Jeff, I'm hoping you will inquire a little further into the real reasons for closing. I've been trying to gather info and opinions while I consider opening a shop here in southern Pittsburgh. My band played an awesome club there in New Brunswick a couple of times, and I remember the area being kind of happening....I would think a comics shop would do well there. Hey, what was the name of that club? I remember playing downstairs....
Joseph

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#208018 - 05/25/00 08:58 PM Re: Comics Attitude shop in New Brunswick, NJ closes
jwasserman Offline
Member

Registered: 12/04/99
Posts: 44
Loc: Brooklyn, originally
Well, guys, I already asked the sole store employee present if there were plans to relocate in the Hub City (that's New Brunswick's nickname, you know) and he told me no. Considering how there are lots of empty storefronts on the town's main street just around the corner, I suspect one of two things:

(1) Comic Attitudes just concluded there isn't a buck to be made in the burg in this depressed funny book business climate. That'd surprise me since New Brunswick's the county seat, site of two of the state university's campuses, and home for...

(2) ...world headquarters of Johnson & Johnson, the Band-Aide people. J&J's just across the street and various quasi-governmental organizations that it controls and funds rebuilt the town over the last twenty years from a down at the heels backwater into a frequently bleak cityscape with massive office towers that lack tenants (other than J&J subsidiaries) and street level store tenants. It's quite possible that Comic Attitudes was denied a new lease as part of J&J's attempt to turn the block Comic Attitudes is on into a more upscale shopping corridor. The Pizza Hut two doors down has also closed.

The departure of Comics Attitudes and several book stores gives me no reason to visit the Hub City anymore. And it's just four miles up the road from me.

-JHW


------------------
-Jeffrey H. Wasserman
Visitors to my website are always welcome! http://www.homestead.com/JachSpake/JachSpake.html




[This message has been edited by jwasserman (edited 05-26-2000).]
_________________________
-Jeffrey H. Wasserman
Visitors to my website are always welcome!
http://www.homestead.com/JachSpake/JachSpake.html

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#208019 - 05/25/00 09:12 PM Re: Comics Attitude shop in New Brunswick, NJ closes
RICK Offline
Member

Registered: 05/03/99
Posts: 1805
Loc: Whitesboro, New York, USA
Phil, I'm pleased to hear your good news! I'd like to send you some copies of Fresh. Is that alright? You can put them out to see what kind of reaction you get from your customers. MidTown Comics has a few set out on their racks, and I believe they're selling.

We put a price of $1.75 on an issue. If you sell them and they become popular ... you can place a retailers subscription at $1.00 per issue. The first batch are on the house...clear profit on your part for offering them up to anyone interested visiting your store(s). Just a thought. Thanks.

--Rick
_________________________
Rick Olney
Organized Readers of Comics Associated
http://www.ORCAfresh.net
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#208020 - 05/25/00 09:30 PM Re: Comics Attitude shop in New Brunswick, NJ closes
John Sokol Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/14/99
Posts: 7
Loc: New Jersey
Jeff,

I picked up my books at comics attitudes today and talked to the owner. Your right on both accounts.

Sokol
_________________________
Tired of all those old trades you'll never read again cluttering up your shelf? Visit Sequential Swap and trade them for "new to you" trades.

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#208021 - 05/26/00 05:00 PM Re: Comics Attitude shop in New Brunswick, NJ closes
TonyDiGerolamo Offline
Member

Registered: 11/30/98
Posts: 409
Loc: Laurel Springs, NJ USA
Fret not, Fan boys!

Although Comic Attitudes was a fine store, there are alternatives. Visit my pals at Adventure Planet with two locations! One in Somerville and the other in Edison, NJ!

908-704-8910 (Somerville)
732-494-2343 (Edison)

Tell them, Tony of the Jersey Devil and The Travelers comics sent you!

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#208022 - 05/26/00 09:25 PM Re: Comics Attitude shop in New Brunswick, NJ closes
jwasserman Offline
Member

Registered: 12/04/99
Posts: 44
Loc: Brooklyn, originally
So, Mr. Sokol, you say that the dual contradictory arguments I posed about Comic Attitudes were both correct. I should've become a lawyer!

And Mr. DiGerolamo, where's this funny book store in Edison, NJ that you mentioned? I used to live in that burg for ten years. Are you perhaps referring to the shop located on the lower level of the Shop Rite shopping center on Oak Tree Road? It's a fine shop, but you couldn't pay me any sort of money to work my way through all the traffic in the area to go to northern Edison. Even when I lived in the town I used to frequent Tommy's Comics in Metuchen, NJ.

As for Somerwille, NJ, I recall a great comics shop on a side street off of the main drag which later moved to the town's main street. The family and I used to go up there for the annual street fair, but we haven't done that in years. Is this the shop you're referring to?

Nowadays I pick up all my comics and those for my kids from Chameleon Comics near my office in Manhattan with an occasional trip to an oversized hole in the wall comics shop in Old Bridge, NJ.

-JHW
_________________________
-Jeffrey H. Wasserman
Visitors to my website are always welcome!
http://www.homestead.com/JachSpake/JachSpake.html

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#208023 - 05/26/00 10:07 PM Re: Comics Attitude shop in New Brunswick, NJ closes
Jim Hanley Offline
Member

Registered: 06/19/99
Posts: 1313
Loc: NYC
What? You never visit my fine establishment?
_________________________
"I love him like a brother. David Greenglass." -- Woody Allen - Crimes & Misdemeanors

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#208024 - 05/27/00 06:58 AM Re: Comics Attitude shop in New Brunswick, NJ closes
jwasserman Offline
Member

Registered: 12/04/99
Posts: 44
Loc: Brooklyn, originally
Good grief, Jim! Yes, I certainly do visit your enormous and incredibly well-stocked shop behind the Empire State Building on 33 Street off of Fifth Avenue in Manhattan. ((Free plug))

It's just that it's not exactly near my Wall Street work environs. I go there three or four times a year during a l-o-n-g break from lunch. (I wouldn't go out of my way to visit Chameleon Comics!) I go to your shop to check out comics and related publications I may have missed.

I used to drop by your old shop near the Staten Island Rail Road station occasionally while en route from NJ to Brooklyn.

My kids still talk about the visit to your 33rd Street shop more often than the trip up to the top of the Empire State Building! They were able to pick up all the Sonic the Hedgehog and Sabrina comics they had missed.

The last time I was in your shop the clerk at the cash register was talking to you over the phone. I should have told him to say hello to you for me. Heh-heh!

-JHW

------------------
-Jeffrey H. Wasserman
Visitors to my website are always welcome!
http://www.homestead.com/JachSpake/JachSpake.html
_________________________
-Jeffrey H. Wasserman
Visitors to my website are always welcome!
http://www.homestead.com/JachSpake/JachSpake.html

Top
#208025 - 05/27/00 02:05 PM Re: Comics Attitude shop in New Brunswick, NJ closes
Jim Hanley Offline
Member

Registered: 06/19/99
Posts: 1313
Loc: NYC
Sorry, Jeff. We all get needy, now and then.

Just 4 times a year, though?

------------------
"I love him like a brother. David Greenglas." -- Woody Allen - Crimes & Misdemeanors
_________________________
"I love him like a brother. David Greenglass." -- Woody Allen - Crimes & Misdemeanors

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#208026 - 05/27/00 05:01 PM Re: Comics Attitude shop in New Brunswick, NJ closes
TonyDiGerolamo Offline
Member

Registered: 11/30/98
Posts: 409
Loc: Laurel Springs, NJ USA
I am referring to the very same Shop Rite shop in Edison. If you're shopping in Manhattan, the choices are endless! Jim Hanley's, Forbidden Planet, Midtown, Cosmic Comics, It's "A" Nother Hit, St. Mark's... I'm sure I'm forgetting a bunch.

Have you tried the comic shop locator service through Diamond? It's not comprehensive, but it occassionally lists stores that are very new.

There's also Boyhood Dreams Dunellen, NJ and MC Comics and Cards in Old Bridge, NJ.

If you need copies of Jersey Devil and The Travelers (and who DOESN'T?), check out my website for a list of fine, fine stores all over the country. http://www.netcom.com/~thefix/sjrp.html

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#208027 - 05/28/00 07:28 AM Re: Comics Attitude shop in New Brunswick, NJ closes
jwasserman Offline
Member

Registered: 12/04/99
Posts: 44
Loc: Brooklyn, originally
Tony:
When we lived in Edison we used to go to Dunnellen quite frequently for a wonderful Chinese restaurant on North Avenue off of Washington Avenue. The comics shop you mention is right on the corner. It was a direct trip, due north of us on Route 529, aka Stelton/Washington. Unfortunately, the Chinese restaurant decided to specialize in Chinese seafood (not to my liking) and we relocated further south.

Yes, I take the kids to MC Comics occasionally so that they can browse the racks and see what's being published. Lately the nearby 7-11 disposed of its comics spinner and the local Rite-Aid pharmacy stopped selling comics. The 7-11 now has four comics titles at most on display and the space where the spinner stood remains vacant. The Rite-Aid used to have something like nine feet of shelving reserved for comics, an uneconomical usage of sales space in my mind.
____________________________________________

Jim-
Sorry, but I just can't get up to your midtown location in Manhattan from my workplace on Wall Street more often than I do. It's not because I cannot take a lot of l-o-n-g lunch breaks (the fact of the matter is that I take a l-o-t of them), it's just that I frequently have a lot of errands to run during lunch; the fate of the commuter.
Now if you'd have opened a satellite location on Chambers Street near Stuyvesant High School you'd see me patronizing you more often. St. Marks Comics recently opened a shop on Chambers just a few doors over from where a previous comics shop went belly up, making me doubt this location's viability.

Wait a minute!!! Good grief! That was your shop that closed on Chambers Street!

I'm so embarrassed!

-JHW

------------------
-Jeffrey H. Wasserman
Visitors to my website are always welcome! http://www.homestead.com/JachSpake/JachSpake.html



[This message has been edited by jwasserman (edited 05-28-2000).]
_________________________
-Jeffrey H. Wasserman
Visitors to my website are always welcome!
http://www.homestead.com/JachSpake/JachSpake.html

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#208028 - 05/28/00 01:19 PM Re: Comics Attitude shop in New Brunswick, NJ closes
Jim Hanley Offline
Member

Registered: 06/19/99
Posts: 1313
Loc: NYC
Jeff:

It wasn't that our Chambers Street store went belly up, so much as that our company almost did.

Chain store operation is essentially a different field than retailing. There came a point that our talents stopped being congruent with our need for same. We were stuck in an awkward place, just as the boom started to bust. Four stores is not a good number to stay at. It was OK, as long as we were theoretically headed for 15. Once that became an unreasonable target, we needed to decide where our core competencies lay.

We took at least a year too long in that decision making process and, as a result, almost lost the whole business.

When I heard tha St. Mark's was opening on Chambers Street, I was happy that our former customers would have someplace convenient to shop. I wish Mitch well in his quest to go where we decided not to. That is, into the chain store business.

[This message has been edited by Jim Hanley (edited 05-28-2000).]
_________________________
"I love him like a brother. David Greenglass." -- Woody Allen - Crimes & Misdemeanors

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#208029 - 05/29/00 07:56 AM Re: Comics Attitude shop in New Brunswick, NJ closes
jwasserman Offline
Member

Registered: 12/04/99
Posts: 44
Loc: Brooklyn, originally
I agree. Having a chain of stores requires deployment of management and organization skills not seen in a one store operation.

Warehousing, distribution, and managerial costs are better justified with a larger amount of locations. Otherwise, these "corporate" overhead costs can overwhelm a small chain. These costs can't be allocated or charged to specific shops as they would distort the individual shops' profitability. In other words, you couldn't determine how succesful a particular shop in a small chain is if you saddle it with the costs of such coporate overhead. The manager of that particular shop wouldn't want to be burdened with any costs above that of a single, stand-alone comic shop as it would impact his perceived performance in the eyes of senior management.

If this sounds like I do this for a business... well, it's because I do! I'm forever justifying (or trying to justify) why we bean-counters allocate corporate overhead (ie- chairman's salary, HR, PR, chauffeurs(!)) to sales offices and branches. It drives the office managers crazy, but they've got to accept corporate overhead if they expect to be a part of a large organization.

To the extent that corporate overhead overwhelms the benefits gained, you either have to cut back said expense or spread it over a greater base. In other words, contract or expand. In my company such adjustments are done routinely and it's always irksome and painful to see folks' responsibilities or their employment itself altered.

-JHW
_________________________
-Jeffrey H. Wasserman
Visitors to my website are always welcome!
http://www.homestead.com/JachSpake/JachSpake.html

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#208030 - 05/31/00 11:43 AM Re: Comics Attitude shop in New Brunswick, NJ closes
Rich Henn Offline
Member

Registered: 12/07/98
Posts: 478
Loc: Eldersburg, MD USA
It's so hard to find a decent shop with attentive customer service. I can name shops out here in MD that are the worst, but for every horrible shop there's 5 good ones.



[This message has been edited by Rich Henn (edited 05-31-2000).]
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#208031 - 05/31/00 04:12 PM Re: Comics Attitude shop in New Brunswick, NJ closes
John Sokol Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/14/99
Posts: 7
Loc: New Jersey
Tony,

I had forgotten about MC Comics (Old Bridge) - They have a very nice selection on the shelf. I may move my business there.

Adventure Planet (Somerville) has been up and coming since the change in ownership, but it still hasn't reached "indy friendly" in my book. They are very convenient for me, so I will check them out as well.

Boyhood Dreams (Dunellen) seems to be primarily men-in-tights books.

I'm also considering JC Comics in Plainfield. They seem to have a nice selection.

In all, I am VERY sad that Comic Attitudes closed. They seemed to be doing everything right. I've lost some of my enthusiasm for the comics because of this.

John
_________________________
Tired of all those old trades you'll never read again cluttering up your shelf? Visit Sequential Swap and trade them for "new to you" trades.

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#208032 - 06/02/00 01:04 AM Re: Comics Attitude shop in New Brunswick, NJ closes
TonyDiGerolamo Offline
Member

Registered: 11/30/98
Posts: 409
Loc: Laurel Springs, NJ USA
Sokol:

You bring up an interesting point. Why do comics fans so closely associate their interest in comics with the store they shop in? I rent from several different video stores and I don't lose interest in movies when one of them closes. I don't lose interest in books when a library or book store closes. You're not the only one, I've seen it happen a dozen times.

Store closes. Some fans move on to other stores, but some choose that point to get out of the medium.

On one hand, I feel that the comraderie between comics fans, retailers and publishers is great. You walk into a shop or a con, everyone speaks your language. Often you have instant repor with a comics fans.

However, I think this same comraderie works against fans, retailers and publishers when someone knew arrives. Publishers especially need to be sensitive to the fact that every issue they make may be picked up by someone new. Too often, I think we forget about the potential new fans outside of comics and alienate them.

I think it's sad Comic Attitudes closed, but they obviously were doing something wrong. In RETAIL, you must think with your head, not your heart. It's the big name publishers that need more heart and less--- Well, you know what I mean.

In the entertainment business, you must take risk and forge new trails. In retail, you count books, see what's selling and adjust your inventory. Yeah, you have to try new stuff, but so do all retailers. That's just part of business.

I think too many retailers are fanboys with a great love of the hobby and very little business sense. Don't get me wrong, I like them. They're nice people and buy Jersey Devils and The Travelers. But too many of them work second jobs to support their store. Too many of them are getting slammed by enormous freight charges, late books, disappointing relaunches and sales gimmicks that haven't worked in 8 years.

They're struggling and I wish them the best, but I'm sure not going to fault them if they give up shelf space for Pokemon or NASCAR.

-Tony D
The Travelers #4 (out this month from Kenzer)
The Travelers #5 (in Previews NOW)
Jersey Devil #11 (out this month from SJRP) http://www.netcom.com/~thefix/sjrp.html

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#208033 - 06/02/00 05:48 PM Re: Comics Attitude shop in New Brunswick, NJ closes
John Sokol Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/14/99
Posts: 7
Loc: New Jersey
Tony:

Very true.

I guess my disappointment is due to the fact the CA carried everything I wanted, were convenient and friendly. The shops I've been visiting either don't carry everything or they are not convenient to ME.

I enjoy comics, but not to the point of inconvenience. I enjoy other stuff too.

I'm going to "test drive" some shops for a couple of months and see where I end up. who knows, it could be fun.

Sokol
_________________________
Tired of all those old trades you'll never read again cluttering up your shelf? Visit Sequential Swap and trade them for "new to you" trades.

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#208034 - 06/02/00 10:01 PM Re: Comics Attitude shop in New Brunswick, NJ closes
jwasserman Offline
Member

Registered: 12/04/99
Posts: 44
Loc: Brooklyn, originally
My guess is that Comic Attitudes' problem had a lot to do with location. It had four locations. One was in Staten Island, NY. This was one county over from Middlesex County, NJ where there were two locations. The fourth was in Westchester County, NY, quite a distance from the others. It must have been a logistical nightmare administrating such a far flung empire with so few outposts.

I can only talk about the Middlesex County, NJ locations. The one that just closed was in an odd shopping mall in New Brunswick. While the town is the county seat and home for the state university, New Brunswick just cannot lure shoppers. The failing shopping mall in question never lured a department store, so it was retrofitted and turned inside out. The storefronts now face the outside instead of facing inward. However, Comic Attitudes' storefront was up a ramp, one floor above street level and probably above drivers' eye level. Furthermore, the landlord's "upscale" notion of renting to pricey restaurants and shops eventually forced Comic Attitudes out.

The other Middlesex County location was in the newly-rebuilt Menlo Park Mall. Unfortunately the shop itself was located in one of the mall's short, stubby arms and was slightly off the beaten path. True, it was close to the _rear_ parking lot entrance, but it never saw a high level of foot traffic. ((Many of the other stores in these arms of the mall remain vacant after six years since the mall opened.)) Couple that with small square footage and a mall's usual demand for a percentage of sales and you have a untenable situation.

-JHW

------------------
-Jeffrey H. Wasserman
Visitors to my website are always welcome!
http://www.homestead.com/JachSpake/JachSpake.html
_________________________
-Jeffrey H. Wasserman
Visitors to my website are always welcome!
http://www.homestead.com/JachSpake/JachSpake.html

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#208035 - 06/03/00 12:19 AM Re: Comics Attitude shop in New Brunswick, NJ closes
Jim Hanley Offline
Member

Registered: 06/19/99
Posts: 1313
Loc: NYC
Percentage rent is not a problem, it's when you don't do enough business to be in percentage rent that the problems occur.

A mall store must generate significant profits in order to finance the build-out. If you don't do enough business to be in percentage rent, the chances of paying for the other expenses are remote.

The major problem that we experienced with mall landlords was the fact that, as a small tenant, you get to negotiate with leasing agents who get beat up by the national chains every day. By the time they get to you, there is a "take it, or leave it" attitude that makes for tough negotiations. Also, the way to tell a leasing agent is lying to you is that you see her lips move.

As I alluded to a few days back, too many would be chain store operators think that you open a bunch of stores and then you become The Gap.

It's a much more complicated task than that.

[This message has been edited by Jim Hanley (edited 06-03-2000).]
_________________________
"I love him like a brother. David Greenglass." -- Woody Allen - Crimes & Misdemeanors

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#208036 - 06/05/00 12:36 PM Re: Comics Attitude shop in New Brunswick, NJ closes
Von Allan Offline
Junior member

Registered: 06/05/00
Posts: 27
Loc: Canada
Yes, I completely agree. I've managed one independent bookstore (in a small, two store operation) for the past 6 years (just 'retiring' recently). 'My' store was street front but our sister was in a small mall. Dealing with the agents of that mall was a trick. They have no loyalties and unfortunately accept no culpability (in our case many of the key stores that created a walk through in the mall have moved on due to frustration with the mall when their leases came up instead of renewing) and can really be a drain on one's mental (and financial) resources! I do not miss that aspect of the business at all.
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#208037 - 07/05/03 03:09 AM Re: Comics Attitude shop in New Brunswick, NJ closes
Jim Hanley Offline
Member

Registered: 06/19/99
Posts: 1313
Loc: NYC
Bump.
_________________________
"I love him like a brother. David Greenglass." -- Woody Allen - Crimes & Misdemeanors

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#596584 - 03/20/12 04:45 PM Re: Comics Attitude shop in New Brunswick, NJ closes [Re: Jim Hanley]
jwasserman Offline
Member

Registered: 12/04/99
Posts: 44
Loc: Brooklyn, originally
Well, this topic hasn't had any postings in almost nine years!

I'm just writing to mention that another comics shop, The Fallout Shelter, has opened and closed in New Brunswick. It started on a side street shop below street level, hence its name, and then moved to busy George Street itself, albeit a little bit too far from the main shopping district.

The shop recently moved across the Raritan River to Highland Park, NJ on its main street, Route 27. It's a big and well-stocked shop.

If the shop had better locations in New Brunswick it might've stayed there for the many reasons I outlined in my earlier posts.
_________________________
-Jeffrey H. Wasserman
Visitors to my website are always welcome!
http://www.homestead.com/JachSpake/JachSpake.html

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#596587 - 03/20/12 10:10 PM Re: Comics Attitude shop in New Brunswick, NJ closes [Re: jwasserman]
Peter Urkowitz Offline
Member

Registered: 08/28/00
Posts: 3231
Loc: Salem, MA, USA
Thanks for the update, sad as it is. Interesting thread!

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