"I try to get out, but they keep pulling me back in!"

I had promised myself not to get into this, but the activity here over the last few days has made it hard.

Mainstream advertising doesn't bring back 5% returns. Mainstream advertising reaches an audience that is 95% uninterested in the comics medium. That means that to get a 5% return rate, every reader of a paper, every viewer of a TV station, and every listener to a radio station who has any interest in comics would have to respond to ads there.

The problem with ignorance is that it is usually a self-chosen state. The idea that everyone who has money is too stupid to invest it in sure-fire ventures like advertising comics to a mainstream audience is as sure a sign of ignorance as I have ever seen. As Pat says, it's been done and it doesn't work.

The way to get comics fans to put up or shut up is simple. I propose that we double the price of comics for the next 5 years without any increase in contents. Then we use the excess revenue to run a mainstream advertising campaign. We can surely add 10% more readers that way.

That way the readers of comics who all live in the lap of luxury can finance the fool's errand without making the people who struggle every day to survive in the comics field give up living indoors.

C'mon guys do it for team comics!

Or am I being to cynical?

[This message has been edited by Jim Hanley (edited 09-07-2000).]

>>Or am I being to cynical?<<<

Maybe a tad.



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Comic Relief: THE Comic Bookstore

>>I think somebody even indicated that advertising was akin to just wasting your money. <<

No, I said continually advertising without tangible results was a waste of money.

Best, Pat

To all you folks who don't think us retailers are trying to sell to new blood, I'll make you a deal. I'll give you a free shot at the first 10 people in the door who I ascertain to be "non"- comic readers. Hell, I'll give you the first 100 people. You can look around the store and make sure I have material you think will work...I'm pretty sure I will. You can try any sales approach that won't put my store in a bad light and isn't unethical. I'll even give you a 20% discount to offer. If after trying to sell a comic to those 100 people, you STILL think I should spend my money on advertising to try to reach them...well, I would probably be willing to give it one more chance. But I'm pretty sure you would realize why we concentrate on real customers. I guess one man's defeatist is another man's realist.

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Duncan McGeary
Pegasus Books of Bend

So, how do we educate the "mainstream public"? McFarlane was on Comedy Central's Turn Ben Stien On a few days ago, and there was no talk of comics at all! While McFarlane isn't the best example of a creator who loves comics, it shows the attitude that many publishers have taken toward the medium which propelled all the movies, toys, TV shows, etc.
My thought is this: At a local level, what can you do to promote comics? Not just as a retailer, but as reader. Do you encourage people on the job to read comics? Do you encourage their kids to read comics? (and do so in a dignified manner). As retailers, what are you doing to recruit new readers? Bump the publishers and distributers. They aren't doing anything to try and tap an untapped market, cause no ones been successful in doing it...yet. If a local retailer were to increase his customer base by a 10% margin through alternitve advertising, or a comic awareness program, then perhaps the big boys would sit up, take notice, and do something themselves.
This is a new era. Comics have to compete with movies, TV, video games, and the internet. What is being done to pursuade people to spend a share of their entertainment dollar on comics?

I don't really expect (or want) anyone to take me up on the above offer. I'm way the hell in the middle of Oregon, 4 hours from any major city. But the sentiments are real. Trying to sell to the public. I follow up on any opening, any expression of interest on the part of the customer. One in a hundred will buy a comic, one in a thousand will become a regular buyer. Actually, I don't agree that we should go after the civilian. We have a very large pool of "used-to-be's"; former comic readers. If we could get even half of those former readers to take a look...with the current quality of comics...we'd have real chance of increasing our readership. Quesada is saying something like that and getting slammed for it. But getting one good artist and one good writer on one good title at a time, and then creating one good new reader at a time. That is what it is going to take. One reader at a time. That would also be a SOLID base to work from...real readers, not the huge wave of 'jump on the Image/Valient/shiny cover crossover' people we had back in 1994.

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Duncan McGeary
Pegasus Books of Bend

I don't think I, or anyone else, is slamming Quesada for trying to get new readers. Not at all. What I am saying is that nothing he's suggesting is innovative and furthermore it seems (and I said I could very easily be wrong about this, too!) that he wants the industry to get stronger doing exactly the same thing as it's done since the creation of the direct market. To my mind, that's a mistake, IF that's what he's saying. With that in mind, I also can't agree with the idea that if we can get the former readers (customers) of comics back into the stores things will be better. This is where I disagree with Quesada. Those readers (customers) left for a reason. How would doing things the same way attract those individuals who already left?
Duncan, you are right that the current crop of comics is far better then it has been in some time, but I'm not sure that Marvel and DC would ever encourage the type of non-superhero titles that would appeal to those, quite frankly, who have tired of it already. That's the crux of the marketing argument: if these readers ARE out there but have LEFT the industry because of CONTENT, then what Quesada is suggesting can't possibly work, because that's WHY they already left! To be fair to him, it remains to be seen what Marvel will do. Call me jaded, though, and even if Quesada truly has the best of intentions, I can't see much improvement happening. Marvel is Marvel and I just don't trust 'em!
I do agree with much of what Jim was saying above. The problem with a concentrated advertising campaign is that it implies that THAT'S what's wrong with everything right now. Advertising is important, but if all the 'big guys' have to sell the 'enlightened' new customers is one small slice of genre pie, they won't keep them. To me, that's a far more reasonable estimate on why the X-Men movie failed to attract new readers then anything else: those who wanted more were going to be in for a disappointment. Advertising is only a hook: the MATERIAL (CONTENT) must stand on it's own. That's one of the key reasons why word of mouth advertising can work so well despite poor marketing. Not to say it will work or that good material is going to overcome poor marketing; far from it. This also goes with something that James said about movies, "More important than a good product, more important than customer service, although both of those are important parts of your marketing, you can actually get by without them if you spend enough on advertising. Anybody ever seen a completely horrible movie that actually made millions of dollars profit." Yes, but I think you are ignoring cause and effect here. The window of opportunity for a movie to make money for it's studio is quite small. How many horrible movies are making money (as opposed to adding to the coffers, I might add) a month after release? By that point, negative reviews and word of mouth will destroy whatever marketing campaign that was used BEFORE the movie hit the theatres. Marketing may be able to sell something regardless of the quality of the product or customer service IN THE SHORT TERM, but it will be eroded in the long term.
So, James, to me that what's wrong with the industry. A concentrated advertising campaign that works, that brings back the readers that Duncan mentioned earlier (those that were fans but left the industry) as well as brand new readers will only work (assuming it does at all) in the short term. Then, the quality of the content plus customer service and all the rest of it come into play. But I'll tell you: a customer may love a retailer, may love his or her store and enjoy being there, but if the content isn't good they'll stop coming.
I also want to make a distinction between retailers and publishers advertising. I believe Duncan alluded to this earlier, but there is no way a local retailer (even a local chain retailer with a few stores) can launch an advertising campaign nationally. Not in conjunction with a publisher let alone on their own. Retailers have every right to expect that the publishers will deal with national exposure while they focus on local exposure. Retailers do advertise, come on! Everything a retailer does is designed to build presence in their market place. And no offense to Philip, but no individual retailer can 'bump' the Big Two and/or Diamond enough to make them change what they've done. These guys don't care about the retailers per se (anyone ever heard of Vertical Integration?) and will happily seek out alternative markets to sell their products without concern for the retailers. The retailers are only responsible for themselves. How can they be otherwise? And Philip: by the very nature of BEING retailers these guys are on the front lines of getting new readers. By their nature. They are far more proactive then almost anyone else in the industry trying to build up a readership (customer) base. It's in their best interest. I can see why Jim, Duncan and other retailers like him get fed up with the implication that they aren't doing enough. Go read Jim's interview last month (I think?) at Sequential Tart if you have any doubts.
So, when I'm talking about advertising I'm talking about publishers. And don't get me wrong: I do commend James' actions with starting a new Con or any other efforts to try and grow the industry. Everyone is talking from their heart. But please don't think that retailers aren't doing enough. That's just so misguided.

What Quesada has been offering through the Marvel Knights imprint, to my mind, has been head and shoulders above just about anything else Marvel is doing. If he can succeed in improving the rest of Marvel that much, it will be a great transition from the old way of doing things (Uncanny X-Men, etc.) to some of the newer stuff like Planetary. I see a progression from say, Fant.4, to Punisher, to Planetary, to...say, Strangers in Paradise.

After the last 5 years, I've decided that we need a healthy Marvel to ever recover. Followed by a healthy DC, Image and Dark Horse. I THINK higher sales would come to all independents if that happened.

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Duncan McGeary
Pegasus Books of Bend

It is lunacy to think that advertising doesn’t work. The long term advantages of advertising have nbeen proven again and again. It works for every other single product out there; why then not for comics. Answer: It can, we just have to discover the how.

You say it has been tried and it didn’t work. Well... try again. If one ad in one magazine (given sufficient time) doesn’t work then try again. The whole secret to this marketing thing is repetition. Consistent and repetitive appearances of a logo or title are makes a product stick in the minds of the buyer. So much so that when they see sad product they purchase the CD, video, car and yes comic book.

Let me be clear, I am asking for the big guys, the ones that own 80% of the market namely Marvel, DC, Image, Diamond, & Another Universe to step forward and make a stand. I have yet to see anything done on the level that I am talking about and that is an aggressive, repetitive marketing campaign that tries to reach out to the potential-but currently-not-buying-public. Very seldom does an ad do so well that only a few placements are needed to make the product move. The ad (whatever it is) needs to bee seen 9or heard) again & again & again & again & again
& again & again.........

I do not believe this is a “just add water solution” nor do I believe that everything will be better if just this one thing is done. I do however believe that this is the keystone. Yes there is a lot of other things that could be and need to be done in order to keep the new readers, but mass marketing to the currently non-buying public (in a repetitive fashion) is just essential. You can make all the changes you want, but if you don’t tell anybody you made them or draw any attention to yourself, then how can you expect anyone to notice?

It isn’t going to be easy and it going to take a very long time to turn this industry around. I admit it will take a pretty damn long time before the industry self-destructs or rather implodes due to “preaching to the choir mentality” but it will happen. Sales will continue to drop unless either the hand of god comes down and simultaneously enlightens everyone to what a great thing a comic can be or we tell them. We tell them as loud and as often as we can. And that my friends is marketing


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Dave Belmore
Ironhorse Comics
www.ironhorsecomics.com

Quesada? I'll be interested to see what he does. He hasmanaged to bring some great talet to the Marvel knights line. If he can do the same thing for the whole Marvel line then more power to him!

I wonder how he's going to let the public know that there's a change in the air...?

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Dave Belmore
Ironhorse Comics
www.ironhorsecomics.com