I did not mean to say that it is that simple. But I hear far more complaints from customers about pricing than I do about any other factor.

Nat said, "They probably were griping when the price went up to 12 cents."

I don't know about that, Nat, but I *have* seen reliable reports that there was great amounts of uproar when comics went up to a quarter.

Willee said, "But I hear far more complaints from customers about pricing than I do about any other factor."

Maybe that is because you do not hear the complaints of those who left due to other factors since they are already gone.

There are *many* factors leading to the decline in comic book sales, price being only one of those, and not a particularly large factor, at that. One was that for quite some time the most promoted comic books just plain sucked. This led to a disillusionment of many customers who weren't so much worried about price as they were about value. Then there was the speculator bust, which was actually a reaction to the fact that comic books were too *cheap*, at least on the secondary market. Lots more. Check the archives for a number of discussions on those.

And, let's just say you are absolutely right, that the *only* thing that has led to the shrinking of the market is that comics are "too expensive" (whatever that means). Then, let's say that the publishers can't seem to find a way to lower prices (who ever does?)? We have seen absolutely NO evidence that the publishers *could* lower the price and still stay in business, so there is no reason to assume that they could. So, are you saying that comics are doomed? Or, do you know something that the publishers who have been doing lots of research on this and have years of experience at this do not?


$.015,


------------------
James Echols
james@uncommoncon.com
Festival Producer - UncommonCon, www.uncommoncon.com
Business Coach - Uncommon Solutions
ride the revolution

What I know is that comic cover prices have far outpaced ordinary inflation over the last decade, and people who buy and read comics are buying and reading fewer of them. The prices skyrocketed during the "boom" because any old piece of crap with a foil/die cut/ holopoopy cover would sell at any price to the fanboy lemmings. They are (thankfully) gone now and the "old timers" would like to see a return to the days of good stories and art at a price that allows them to try something new and different once in awhile.

I freely admit that I am not an expert on the number crunching aspects of the business, but I think that if they added a 'few' more pages of art and 'several' more pages of ads and rolled prices back to two bucks a shot, readers would love it.

What I know is that comic cover prices have far outpaced ordinary inflation over the last decade, and people who buy and read comics are buying and reading fewer of them. The prices skyrocketed during the "boom" because any old piece of crap with a foil/die cut/ holopoopy cover would sell at any price to the fanboy lemmings. They are (thankfully) gone now and the "old timers" would like to see a return to the days of good stories and art at a price that allows them to try something new and different once in awhile.

I freely admit that I am not an expert on the number crunching aspects of the business, but I think that if they added a 'few' more pages of art and 'several' more pages of ads and rolled prices back to two bucks a shot, readers would love it.

Willee: "The prices skyrocketed during the "boom" because any old piece of crap with a foil/die cut/ holopoopy cover would sell at any price to the fanboy lemmings."

Okay, one more time... Yes, the prices on "fancy" comics were raised over those of regular comics to supposedly pay for the foil or whatever. However, that had *nothing* to do with the price rise in the regular comic books. There was a paper shortage. Really. Go look it up in the history books. Prices skyrocketed all over the place. I'll give you that the publishers probably raised them more than necessary to pad their shareholders' profit checks, but that still wasn't more than a few percentage points. Could have saved a nickel or a dime per comic if they weren't so greedy, but not more than that. Would that really make a big difference?

And, given that the big publishers are not really making a mint and the smaller publishers are REALLY not making a mint, how can you say that they are gouging you? Still, most people who create comics do it for the love of it, not because they think they will get rich. Even Todd McFarlane made most of his millions on the licensing, not the comics themselves (although he did make quite a bit off the comics). But, that was a few years ago, and I really doubt if he is making much of TMP these days.

I still think the answers are to make comic books a better *value*, restructure the way they are produced, change the way they are marketed, rearrange the demographic they primarily target, and "professionalize" the industry.

$.015,

------------------
James Echols
james@uncommoncon.com
Festival Producer - UncommonCon, www.uncommoncon.com
Business Coach - Uncommon Solutions
ride the revolution

Yes I know there was a paper shortage, I even remember the purported cause, but I don't remember hearing that all other newstand magazines doubled in price over a span of about three years. In fact, most other magazines are still roughly the same price that they were in the early nineties. Why is it that when there is a dramatic price rise in any product-gas, lumber, paper, whatever-the price always seems to stay high after the shortage is over.

Gouging is such an ugly word.I'm glad I didn't use it. And I didn't say anything about creators--I want them to earn a good living, and the best way for that to happen is to sell more comics. So lets listen to the buyers, both current and prospective. Many of them would understand your concept of more 'value' but the future is in the mass market and the 'masses' expect comics to be less than magazines. You can argue with them until youre' blue in the face but if they stop buying--you lose.

I don't accept you as representative of the masses.

The experiments that have been done with lower-priced comics have not met with vast success. And for distributing comics outside of the direct market, low prices are an impedement. From reports on previous experiments and from talking to newsstand retailers, I can tell you that there is retail resistance at offering something at that low a price point that requires that much maintenance.

Here we go again. I did not say that I represent the masses. But I do run a store and have for ten years, I'm just passing on what I hear from the people that keep us all in business.

Ressistance, from newstand retailers, to lower prices does not surprise me. If the comics don't sell they can just use the space for something else. I worry about resistance from readers.

Um. Opinion.
Comics are not, anytime soon, going to stop using super-heroes as their flagship concept. Why this is, I'm not sure. But, in order to keep comics alive, we need to be pushing the superheroes on kids, who will hopefully love the idea of comics and want to get involved with a wider variety of comics than just superheroes.
Seems like the problem is not necessarily in just the format, but the distribution. True, comics should be cheaper in order to get the kids lured in. I suggest a Disney Adventures-sized magazine format--small enough to fit in your back pocket, pretty thick. Put Superman on the cover, collect, maybe, the month's Superman stories, a couple reprints, a lot of ads for candy and soda and whatnot (as the target is kids, remember), call it Superman Digest. Then you distribute this comic, along with Batman Digest and Justice League Digest, to Toys-R-Us and supermarkets, where Archie comics have a monopoly right now. The kids pester their parents into buying the little two-or-three dollar magazine, and -BOOM-! You have a customer who's hooked for three or four years. The kid gets older, say, 13, 14, and he's bored with comics. But he sees a house ad in the digest for a 1-800 number to locate the comics shop nearest him, and he figures he'll go and check it out. And he does and THIS is what the direct market is for: there are all these wide variety of books for just about every niche market, for just about every taste, and they're ALL comics!
The only way that the direct market and comics stores can survive is by bringing in new customers, but, unless you're a comics fan, a comics shop is not on your itinerary. A comics shop is an ending point, a destination only if you're already indoctrinated into our strange little shrinking cultural sub-group. If we take in the kiddies at their usual haunts (toy stores, shopping with parents, the usual impulse purchase places), they will find their way to the direct market stores.
I'm sorry this is so rambling (and, presumably, naive), but I'm not a big message-board goer. Forgive any breaches of etiquette.
Hi-ho,
paul

P-Dawg, I agree completely. This is one of the main points that I've been trying to get across. I couldn't tell you how many times a kid has picked up a comic (be it pokemon, or scooby or batman adventures) in my shop and had to put it back because mom or pop says "two dollars, good lord, why in my day they were only a nickel" Granted, they will never drop below the two dollar mark again, but they MUST at least hold the line there. If you want readers for Hate, for example, fifteen years from now, you need to be selling archies today.

ps:By the way, I have never seen one of these nickel comics. In fact I have offered free comics to people if they can produce one--no takers so far.