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#211812 - 01/14/99 10:12 PM Re: Lieber's web gallery of life-drawing
BClayMoore Offline
Member

Registered: 01/05/99
Posts: 90
Loc: Kansas City, KS
Nicolaides emphasizes getting the feel of the model, and using a continuous line to get the gesture down, encapsulating the entire pose with the initial sketch. Start with the action, the point where the action begins, and begin letting the pencil roam in a quick, continuous flow. It's almost like an automatic writing kind of thing, relying on instinct, the way he describes it. Above all, avoid following edges...the key is to capture the point of action. It's not a question of creating a realistic quick sketch, it's a matter of capturing the essence of the gesture.

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#211813 - 01/15/99 01:19 PM Re: Lieber's web gallery of life-drawing
Matthew High Offline
Member

Registered: 11/30/98
Posts: 158
I'm actually really great at working from a model. The more life drawing I do, the better and quicker I seem to get.

Unfortunately, this seems to do little, right now, for any imagined poses.

I've have a tremendous amount of success, though, using references for constructing compositions. But, I feel like it is becoming a crutch and I should begin now, to work away from using too many references.

Any opinions on this... I am definitely going to continue to do the life drawing. But, do the references become a crutch? Should I limp without them... or is this how it goes for most people?

Robert
GraphicNovels.com

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#211814 - 01/15/99 04:49 PM Re: Lieber's web gallery of life-drawing
Bradly E Peterson Offline
Member

Registered: 11/23/98
Posts: 322
Loc: Fort Worth, Tx USA
Sterling Publishing is soliciting for "FIGURE DRAWING WITHOUT A MODEL" by Ron Tiner in the current Previews (product ships in March 1999).

It's on page 307 of the catalog in the BOOKS section. It's 160 Pgs, Partial color for $17.95

Also shipping in March is Sterling Publishing's "Drawing Human Anatomy" by Giovanni Civardi, in B&W, 88 pgs for $14.95

Although, it's a bit off-topic, Sterling Publishing is also shipping "Drawing In Perspective" Hard cover by Oliver Striegel in Full color, 78 pgs for $19.95.

Oh, and all the books are in 8" X 11" format.
Hope that helps.

PS: I'm ordering the first two...

------------------
Bradly E. Peterson
Psychodrama Press
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds"
(Albert Einstein)
http://www.fastlane.net/homepages/drama/
_________________________
Bradly E. Peterson
Psychodrama Press
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds"
(Albert Einstein)
www.fastlane.net/homepages/drama/

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#211815 - 01/18/99 09:16 PM Re: Lieber's web gallery of life-drawing
MarkBadger Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/25/98
Posts: 22
Robert wrote>> I'm actually really great at working from a model... Any opinions on this... I am definitely going to continue to do the life
drawing. But, do the references become a crutch? Should I limp
without them... or is this how it goes for most people?


My standard thought on drawing is check out Drawing Lessons from the Old masters by Robert beverly Hale. he's really good at applying figure drawing to constructing figures for composition. Bestest book on drawing every done.

Time makes everyone better, keep doing life drawing there is no substitute.

As fer the tracing photos issue, there is a difference between what sells and what good comics are. And certainly between what I think good comics are and what an editor thinks good comics are. If ya wanna work at marvel/DC/Dark Horse you have to impress an editor first. Thats what tracing photos are for.
I suspect most editors working at those companies have little knowledge outside what they learned at the company about art. So the more swipes you give them the better off you'll be.

cynical as ever,
Mark Badger
www.lemoncustard.com

cyber comics to weird to print

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#211816 - 01/19/99 12:27 AM Re: Lieber's web gallery of life-drawing
Skinshark Offline
Member

Registered: 01/12/99
Posts: 53
Loc: Athens, Georgia
At a Chicago Comicon a couple of years back I had the utmost pleasure to look through one of Steve Rude's sketchbooks. I was immobilized by his figure studies and poses and painting and ink...you get the idea. It was brilliant to say the very least.

I had asked him if he was able to get live models to pose for him for some of the shots. He said he mostly used himself standing in front of a mirror, drawing with a free hand if he could. Ever since then I've used handheld mirrors to get the right expressions or mirrors in the bathroom for full body poses. It's not easy but if you can do it it does help quite a bit.

I also use very articulated action figures, like the Ultimate Soldier. You can pose these badboys, light them, set them on fire..whatever. And they even have female officers as well, though not easy to find.

Again a few ideas that may help you along the way. Books only take you so far, time and training do the rest.

Good Luck!
_________________________
-S!

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#211817 - 01/19/99 03:01 AM Re: Lieber's web gallery of life-drawing
savage Offline
Member

Registered: 11/24/98
Posts: 1007
Loc: Minneapolis,MN USA
First- those are nice charcoal drawings. I've never really enjoyed working in charcoal...unless I was planning to hit it with ink, paint and/or pastels afterward. It's a tool you almost have to work pretty large to use and I like the small picture thing most of the time. (You should see the size of most of my paintings from art school....I drove my instructor crazy. He prefered big pictures.) However, when ever I do spend time with charcoal and a model my drawing seems to get better. Something you've been fighting with for a month suddenly falls into place and that sort of thing. How big are the originals, by the way?

Secondly- Life drawing is as close to a best friend you are going to have. It teaches you weight and structure. However, there are ways to do it wrong. This is just my opinion from when I first learned how to draw. Drawing exactly what you see did nothing for me initially. Sure the pictures were more exact, but they still missed something. The one day an art instructor I had gave an assignment which gave me a clue to what was wrong. He told us to draw the model from 45 degrees off of where we were standing. Boy did that drawing stink...I was missing the structural understanding necessary to finish the drawing.

I had locked myself into the two dimensional space of the paper's surface and the apparent two dimensionality of percieved reality.

What I'm saying is that drawing from life is a good thing as long as you occasionally study the structure of what you're drawing and not just the surface.

Nowadays I still suck, but I'm getting better. I think...



------------------
Justin Savage
President/Editor/Web-bozo
Sabre's Edge
http://www.sabresedge.com
_________________________
Justin Savage
President/Editor/Web-bozo
www.sabresedge.com

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#211818 - 01/22/99 01:27 PM Re: Lieber's web gallery of life-drawing
Anonymous
Unregistered


Sorry for disppearing on my own thread there folks. My computer went kaflooey. It's back and so am I.

To answer Justin's questions about how big the drawings are, I tend to draw models close to the size that I see them. This means that the drawing is the size it would be if I was tracing the image on a piece of glass through which I was viewing the model, plus maybe ten or twenty percent to give me some room to swing my arm. The closer I am to the model, the bigger the drawing. If I work much bigger than that I find that I have to conciously dope out proportions, rather than being able to rely on instinct. This approach comes straight from Robert Fawcett's "On the Art of Drawing," about which I've raved on this very board.

In practice this means that the drawings never get over 14 by 17, and often fit neatly onto 11 by 14 paper. I use a fairly hard charcoal pencil for most of the drawing. Sometimes I rough things in with whatever filth remains on the paper stumps that lurk around the bottom of my art bin. Often I'll go in at the end with some juicy vine charcoal or black conte to lay in the really dense areas of darkness.

My chief goals in life drawing are to keep my eyes fresh and open to what people actually look like. Sheer enjoyment plays a part too, as does my continuing aspiration to suck less tomorrow than I do today.

Skinshark- it isn't always clear, but Mark was indulging in bitter, bitter sarcasm with his photo advice. In purely practical terms, I'm sad to say, he might be right. When I go over someone's portfolio at a convention, I often split my advice between "what you should do to get better," and "what you should do to get a job."

Robert: At the Kubert school our life drawing teacher, Ben Ruiz (who had been a Burne Hogarth pupil sometime after WW2) taught us that the key to drawing the figure from imagination is memorizing a series of simple three-dimensional shapes. These shapes, which were quite precise, serve as a simple way to orient bony land marks in constructing a skeleton, to which you can then attach muscles, fatty tissues and skin. If you want a short cut, put down an action line or simple gesture drawing. Divide it into the rough proportions of your model sheet, then build the figure as a group of tubes and boxes going forward and backward in space. Once you have a decent mannequin constructed, the rest is just drapery. (Assuming you're working with clothed figures.) Given time, you will begin to find subtleties from your life drawing and studies of photos appearing in your constructions.

I know this is almost insultingly didactic, and I apologize for that, but there isn't much more to drawing from imagination, except for the part that requires fucking up a couple thousand times until you get the hang of it.

Steve Lieber

------------------
My web page: www.geocities.com/SoHo/Museum/8914/
Preview of WHITEOUT #1 at www.easystreet.com/~kodiak/Whiteout.html
WHITEOUT #4 now in stores. An on-going follow-up series is in the works.

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#211819 - 11/20/00 09:11 PM Re: Lieber's web gallery of life-drawing
Steve Lieber Offline
Member

Registered: 03/02/00
Posts: 296
Loc: Portland, OR
Why start a new thread when there's a pefectly good ancient one still floating around the archives. I've added some new nudes to my life drawing gallery.

The new stuff starts here: http://www.unrewarding.com/steve/ld31.html

Or review the whole megillah starting here:
http://unrewarding.com/steve/lifedrawingindex.html

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http://www.unrewarding.com/steve The acclaimed graphic novel WHITEOUT, my life-drawing gallery and more.
_________________________
Me | Periscope |UNDERGROUND the comic | Whiteout |Twitter

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#211820 - 11/20/00 10:16 PM Re: Lieber's web gallery of life-drawing
savage Offline
Member

Registered: 11/24/98
Posts: 1007
Loc: Minneapolis,MN USA
These look great. Looks like you are either scanning the originals now or shooting them. Do you have a local life drawing co-op that you go to?

Anyway...cool beans.



------------------
Justin Savage
President/Editor/Web-bozo
www.sabresedge.com
_________________________
Justin Savage
President/Editor/Web-bozo
www.sabresedge.com

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#211821 - 11/21/00 01:41 AM Re: Lieber's web gallery of life-drawing
Steve Lieber Offline
Member

Registered: 03/02/00
Posts: 296
Loc: Portland, OR
Scanning the originals. And there's a studio near my home that offers open life sessions.



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http://www.unrewarding.com/steve The acclaimed graphic novel WHITEOUT, my life-drawing gallery and more.
_________________________
Me | Periscope |UNDERGROUND the comic | Whiteout |Twitter

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