Originally posted by Paul W. Sondersted, Jr.:
That's my point & you (Netrigan) prove it well with more exaggerated "examples"...
Like..."Nicknames are destroying comics", JB never used the word "destroy", but you use it because it's over-the-top.
“Oh gosh, he didn’t use this
exact word, therefore it’s another horrible, awful exaggerations!”
John Byrne, the man who routinely rants about all the damage being done to comics, how Comics As They Should Be Done are under attack from a variety of sources and who hates modern comics (though he does not read them) and large aspects of fandom, also rants that nicknames having contributed to the current state of comics and comic fandom. He says:
In another thread, I mentioned NYC Mayor Rudi Guiliani's "war" on so-called "quality of life" crimes. The graffiti vandals, the squeeqie guys, etc. The people who contributed to an overall decline in the day to day life in New York. Guiliani reasoned -- and was proven correct -- that looking the other way when these "small scale" crimes were being committed contributed to a general negative attitude toward and about the city.
There is, for me, a parallel in the use of these cutesy-poo, and usually disrespectful short-forms of the character's names. "Supes". "Bats". "Wolvie". "Maggie". They come from, and contribute to, a subtle and insidious mentality in fandom. That whole "Oh, I am so much superior to this foolish comic books I am reading! Please, don't judge me by this trash! I am better than that!" As Guiliani saw with the "quality of life" crimes, it becomes a cumulative effect, and when we throw in a few other factors, equally "small" taken on their own -- well, we end up with the mess the industry is in today, don't we?
Okay, so he likens fans using nicknames to the “overall decline” of a city and says they helped lead us to “the mess the industry is in today,” an industry he can’t stop criticizing. More on that later. He follows that comment up with:
When the readers start doing it, however, it creates a subtle and unfortunate undercurrent. Can you really have respect for characters you diminish in this way? Can you expect anyone else to?
He later says nicknames help to “undermine the whole” of comics. (
Source )
And still later:
The longer I stuck around, tho, the more I saw the likes of "Supes" and "Bats" and all the other increasingly ridiculous and demeaning "nicknames" becoming a problem. When I came online I saw it as an epidemic, and a sad reflection of the feigned ennui of too many so-called "fans".
Problem. Epidemic. Erm…
(As a side note, that thread is in general a fine, fine example of John Byrne acting like a dickhead, a dismissive, curt old coot without a shred of respect for viewpoints that are not his own.)
(Also worth noting, he says the nicknames diminish the characters. What does the
thesaurus say? That said word may be used in place of “tear down,” “die away,” “impair,” etc. But we’ll get into that below …)
In an older discussion on nicknames Byrne speaks of erosion and rot and the like. One quote of many:
But the grandeur has slipped away. More and more writers want to magnify the "feet of clay", forgetting that it was telling tales of how the heroes rose above those human frailties that made Marvel Comics what they were. And in the slow errosion of that special magic, referring to the characters by these infantile nicknames has played an important part.
He also says:
What I address with my complaint here is the rot from within.
Rot from within. Erosion. Erm…
(Purely coincidence, I’m sure, but that thread
also paints a picture of Byrne as a dickhead.)
(Also worth noting how many of those loyal fans from that old thread have since left him out of disgust, been banned from his forums, or both.)
So John Byrne has said that nicknames have contributed to the mess the industry is in. And what shape does Byrne think the industry is in? Here are only a sparse few of the many, many, many statements he has made decrying the current state of the industry.
the industry has slim hope of recovery, or even survival
PEOPLE WHO MISS DEADLINES ARE LAZY, ARROGANT, UNPROFESSIONAL C*CKS*CKERS WHO ARE IN NO SMALL WAY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DEATH OF THE INDUSTRY. AND THE 'FANS' WHO SUPPORT THEM ARE BRAINDEAD ELITIST MORONS.
Since I have no interest in working for a company apparently so intent on committing suicide, I have terminated my association with Marvel Comics effective immediately.
That’s just a sparse, sparse few, of course, selected because they’re interesting quotes that also happen to illustrate what he thinks of the current state of the industry.
So, he likens nicknames to the “overall decline” of a city and “erosion” and “rot,” and says they have contributed to “the mess the industry is in today,” an industry he says has a “slim hope of recovery, or even survival.”
Hmmmm.
For a guy who gripes about “context,” Paul, you sure are lacking in contextual reading skills. Even someone who didn’t have a full awareness of Byrne’s frequent lessons, gripes and lectures would find “nicknames are destroying comics” to be a fair enough assessment of the stance outlined in the quotes cited above. CERTAINLY no more exaggerated than your idiotic “people say JB kicks puppies!” nonsense, and in fact very much
less so. The terms, phrases and tone he uses make that a perfectly just summing up of his stance.
And for those who
do, in fact, have knowledge of Byrne’s frequent lessons, gripes and lectures? Context is key. I’ve given you some context above (and there is
plenty more out there). The bottom line is pretty clear.
John Byrne thinks when fans use superhero nicknames they are contributing to the destruction of comics.
Oh, sorry, he didn’t use the word “destroy.” I’m exaggerating again! No, he’s only saying that fans using nicknames is diminishing, eroding, negatively impacting, and rotting an industry he either thinks is dead or on the cusp of death.
Erm …
So yeah, anyway, when you finally manage to cite one of these terrible, unjust exaggerations you keep talking about, well ...
I don't mean this as an insult and mean it in the nicest way possible, Pally, so please, do not be insulted: You're a moron with at best a tenuous grasp on the English language.
I mean that in the nicest way possible. No offense. But you fail.
Again.
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