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#240602 - 04/04/99 12:01 PM Re: breaking away
Jeff Zugale Offline
Member

Registered: 12/06/98
Posts: 1806
Loc: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Hey, anybody head over to www.whatisthematrix.com yet? Some pretty cool digital art comics over there -- although most of the artists did the work in standard comic-page layout, which doesn't entirely make sense... But, check it out anyway, as some of the art is spectacular. Bill Sienkewicz' piece is particularly cool. There's another one that looks like B&W watercolor also, very nice.

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Jeff Zugale
Pagan City Comics
www.pagancity.com
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Jeff Zugale www.jeffzugale.com/
My "Just A Bit Off..." webcomic

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#240603 - 04/04/99 04:12 PM Re: breaking away
Joe Zabel Offline
Member

Registered: 11/23/98
Posts: 2546
Loc: Cleveland Heights, OH 44106
I'd like to reply to Justin's remark, 'comics are comics and if you have a comic that's half animation it isn't either. It's something else all together. '

I've talked some in the McCloud TNG thread about the purpose of a definition. Maybe to extend that, let me say that the purpose of a definition is not only to define a discrete entity--

--but to define the group of PEOPLE who are practitioners of an artform.

The online cartoonists who are developing their craft now come from comics. They love comics. They want to be comics artists.

But they aren't going to be held back because some of the other people who are part of that artform (artists or fans, it doesn't really matter) want to set up boundaries and say, beyond this point there are no comics.

We have an historic opportunity to expand our artform, and seize the future that other artforms haven't even begun to grasp.
Right now, online cartoonists have just made it as far as the garage. They're checking the oil, kicking the tires, and reving the engine of the new artform.

They have yet to really take it out on the road. As of yet they're hardly prepared, intellectually, to crank it up and send it out on the freeway.

But it won't be long. before they do. Hopefully this discussion board will give them a roadmap to get to the freeway-- although it'll be up to them to read the signs wizzing by once they race down that entrance ramp. And they'll have to watch out for traffic cops and remember to signal when they change lanes and... hey, I think my metaphore is swirving out of control!!

KKEERRAAASSHHH!!!



Anyway, once they're out their on that freeway, lets hope that we don't allow our orthodoxy to hold us back. We don't want to be left behind!




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Joe Zabel
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Joe Zabel

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#240604 - 04/05/99 01:50 AM Re: breaking away
savage Offline
Member

Registered: 11/24/98
Posts: 1007
Loc: Minneapolis,MN USA
Joe, I don't mean to sound overly orthodox. (To tell you the truth it's not something I'm used to hearing associated with me.) Maybe I am a bit. However, I'm not trying to stifle anybody's creativity either. I just see a big problem with letting everything fall under one label.

Ever been down south? I had the damndest time for awhile down there. I drink coke like its water. So, everytime I asked for a coke I'd get either something different or they'd ask me what kind. (One time they gave me a Sprite. Now, how you get that from Coke is totally beyond me.) A friend of mine in Austin told me that every soda is "a coke".

All I'm saying is that this sort of thing should be called something else....not that you shouldn't do it. Primarily to allieviate confusion in the audience who might expect a traditional comic when they see "comics". It also helps clarify discussion.

So, I proposed that comics , cybercomics , and multimedia be used for traditional , hybrid , and more interactive cd-rom type productions. I honestly don't care what terms are used. As long as we have more than context to use to tell them apart.



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Justin Savage
President/Editor/Web-bozo
Sabre's Edge
www.sabresedge.com
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Justin Savage
President/Editor/Web-bozo
www.sabresedge.com

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#240605 - 04/05/99 11:31 AM Re: breaking away
cayetano Offline
Member

Registered: 03/29/99
Posts: 334
Loc: la frontera
and herein lies the problem...

by saying "comics" we automatically think of print comics, but this isn't the case. as scott, and many others have said over and over...comics isn't a type of printing or presentation style, it's not what format or style it's in that makes it comics, it's the essential elements of the craft that make it comics. deliberate images, text, pictorials in sequence to convey an idea, that's comics. whether the images/text are painted on a row of plates or a bunch of gif images and html within a table tag, the essential basic elements of "what is comics" will define them as comics. the egyptian hieroglyphs aren't "wall comics" as opposed to William Hogarth's "Rake's Progress" being "etched comics" as opposed to McCloud's "my obsession with chess" being "online comics". the common thread -images and pictorials in sequence- will define them as "comics".

now, adding in music, sound, interactivity, and animation doesn't necessarily negate it as "comics" IF the basic structure of "comics" is observed. if it's animated and has sound and is only in one frame like Gary Panter's "webcomics" at cartoonnetwork.com, then they're ANIMATION because there are no images in a temporal map or deliberate sequence.

and distinctions DO need to be made because the art form requires it. where would we be now if a while back someone hadn't decided to make the distinction between comic strips and newspaper articles. they both appeared in the same format. however, something is obviously different somehow....

and a definition isn't necessarily a "restriction" because if this were the case, then painting would be dead, so would music, so would art. all the "rules" have been observed, so there's no need to explore any further, right? wrong. just because we define something doesn't necessarily mean that a myriad of possibilities don't exist for expansion, discovery, exploration, experimentation, and innovation.

[img]http://www.panam.edu/dept/art/archive/montbutt.gif[/img]
inkwell

[This message has been edited by cayetano (edited 04-05-99).]
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cayetano "cat" garza jr.
oh, you're that magic inkwell guy!
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#240606 - 04/05/99 11:33 AM Re: breaking away
cayetano Offline
Member

Registered: 03/29/99
Posts: 334
Loc: la frontera
oh, and by the way, i checked out the matrix comic. very nice work, but i think it's going to be issued as a print comic later. this may account for the print format of the pages. if these were really meant to be web comics, wouldn't they have been formatted to fit the web? just a thought...



[This message has been edited by cayetano (edited 04-05-99).]
_________________________
cayetano "cat" garza jr.
oh, you're that magic inkwell guy!
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#240607 - 04/12/99 10:43 PM Re: breaking away
Bradly E Peterson Offline
Member

Registered: 11/23/98
Posts: 322
Loc: Fort Worth, Tx USA
Here's a what if...

What if you had a page that loaded a scene, such as a hotel room, characters (bad guy, good guy, etc.) speech balloons (or maybe even sound) and you could rotate the scene to view it from ANY angle? Now, there's no animation in there, but all the characters would be modeleed in 3-D, and each panel would load individually as a "still scene". Now, it doesn't show only one point of view as standard printed comics do, but can be seen from any point of view.

Is it comics?

Let's say that those panels could be printed out once you've chosen the angle you want, and the computer will remember which point of view you've chosen and will simply line up the panels on the page sequentially.

Is it comics?


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Bradly E. Peterson
Psychodrama Press
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds"
(Albert Einstein)
http://www.fastlane.net/homepages/drama/
_________________________
Bradly E. Peterson
Psychodrama Press
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds"
(Albert Einstein)
www.fastlane.net/homepages/drama/

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#240608 - 04/13/99 05:26 PM Re: breaking away
cayetano Offline
Member

Registered: 03/29/99
Posts: 334
Loc: la frontera
it's funny that you should mention that, i've actually been tinkering with the same idea and even had a dream about it! [img]/resources/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

as long as there's images in SEQUENCE, it's comics. whether or not those images are painted on boxes, 3D modeled, or just regular panels, the sequence of images (with or without word balloons or text) to relate a progress through time and or space makes it "comics". that means that sequence can have animation, sound, etc. at least, that's what i've come up with at this point...
_________________________
cayetano "cat" garza jr.
oh, you're that magic inkwell guy!
http://www.moderntales.com

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