One complaint I keep hearing about Keenspot/space is their exclusivity. Just one example: Someone tried nominating New In Town for one of their awards a while back, but was then told that only "Keen" comics were eligible.

That seems to be changing, though. Whenever someone e-mails me and asks if I plan on joining Keenspot/space, I explain that I like to be independent, and that hopefully I can still be a friend of Keen without actually being Keen. They seem cool with that. Keen's participation in Talk About Comics is clearly another step in the right direction.

There's a lot of talk going on about online comics being a community, but the Keens are some of the few who are actually working at it. Now, if they can continue bridging the gap between Keen and non-Keen comics, then I say let them go for it.

MAC www.newintowncomics.com

I really like the idea of Keenspot...the opportunity for cartoonists to showcase their work, and actually get paid for it. (Regardless of the actual dollar amounts, and the frequency of actually being paid, this is a noble gesture.)

My biggest gripe about Keenspot, is having to wade through a dozens of comics that don't interest me at all, to find the ones that do. Granted, I have very specific likes and dislikes.

Keenspot needs an objective editor/reviewer. Someone who could catagorize the various entries, and offer an editorial opinion of the strips therein. (I would suggest a reader review section, however, I'm fairly certain that would mutate into a popularity contest rather quickly.)

Browsing through Keenspot, is like browsing through Yahoo's list of web comics. Because all of the descriptions are self-written, they really aren't really helpful for the casual reader.

In the few short weeks of Talk About Comic's "recommended web comics" section, I have found at least a dozen fascinating new comics. You can feel the editor's presence throughout the site.

Knowing that I dislike fantasy, sci-fi and superhero comics, I just avoid the sections labelled such. (And I certainly don't begrudge Mr. Manley for including these sections...I'm fairly certain I'm no arbiter of good taste.)

If you had multiple editors/reviewers, you could avoid the problem of "editor x hates all superhero comics...this guy/girl is obviously an idiot." Fans of web comics could check out the recommended strips of their favorite reviewer. (An example being, if you were a fan of small art films, you certainly wouldn't turn to Joel Siegel of Good Morning America for recommendations. If you're wondering about Jessica Able's newest work, you'd be wise to avoid Wizard for a review...)

I really do think that Keenspot is good for the medium...I just look forward to Keenspot v.2.0.

(In the interests of full disclosure, I edit a web comics anthology. I'm also opinionated, and something of an indie-comics snob. I have tried to rein in my snobbery, and offer constructive criticism...so I hope I haven't offended. Please, take me to task for my offensive, and ham-fisted critque of Keenspot!)

-bryant paul johnson
Tragi-Comix

Thanks for the kind words, Bryant. For the record, Talk About Comics and Keenspot aren't in competition with one another at all -- Keenspot is a publisher of webcomics, while Talk About Comics is a fanzine/journal about web comics. Trying to use Keenspot's homepage as a portal is the equivilant of using Image's solicitation pages in Previews as a guide to ordering comics. Some of what they publish is very, very good. Some of it is garbage. The publisher isn't going to tell you anything except that it's all very good. That's what publishers do. That's what publishers *should* do.

My own opinion of Keenspot? As a portal for readers, the site isn't very useful (for the reasons mentioned above). As a publisher, they offer a very good service to beginning web cartoonists who don't want to be bothered with learning the basics of web publishing technically, or business-building generally.

I think they're less useful to cartoonists who have already established themselves, and it will be interesting to see how they manage to hold onto their "star properties" (Sinfest, for example) over time.



One of the most gratifying things I've found while building the Quality Webcomics directory has been the popularity of the "Realistic Fiction," "Autobiography" and "Experimental" sections of the directory. Traced.com gets more click-throughs than any other webcomic in the list (granted, I'm not sending huge BigPanda-like amounts of traffic to anyone yet, but still). There are a lot of indie snobs out there Bryant, and a lot of webcartoonists are creating works that would delight those indie snobs -- if they could only find it (grin).

Joey www.talkaboutcomics.com


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Listen to Digital Comics Talk while you browse these boards:
http://www.talkaboutcomics.com/listennow.php

I think that keenspot will have no trouble hanging onto their bigger properties because from what I have observed, a lot of webcartoonists are not interested in learning the business end of cartooning.

I think a lot of them are still under the impression taht 1)Things like Keenspot are going to go on indefinately or 2)Someone is going to come find them and provide them the financial support to be a fulltime cartoonist.

Neither is true. From what I can see, and with what little understanding I have about how things work, Keenspot is going to have to either lower their ad rates, lower their monthly bandwidth usage or go away.

As for some large company "discovering" you and setting you up to be a professional cartoonist...that just ain't how it works.

Oh, I do realise that Talk About Comics and Keenspot certainly aren't in competition, and are fulfilling different roles entirely...I just wish that Keenspot, and other web portals, would borrow a chapter from Talk About Comics. Intelligent catagorization, and classification helps everyone!

I don't think that a publisher offering reviews of its own work is beyond comprehension. While Amazon's reader review section isn't the acme of unbiased editorials, a model like that could work for Keenspot. (Besides, adding a little darwinian fear to the cartoonists of Keenspot might create a spike in quality!)

As for Mr. Kurtz's comments regarding the economics of Keenspot, I think the liklihood of any cartoonist being able to support themselves entirely from their own comic is slim.

Anyone who starts a web comic with the hope of paying their bills probably isn't long for the world of comics.

I would count PvP as a rare combination of quality and business acumen. I think the situation you've created for yourself is the exception, and certainly not the norm. (And I'm certainly impressed at the fact that you've managed to keep a tight schedule, while balancing the time to create, and run the business end of things...)

I don't expect to make a living drawing comics...I've sacrificed economics for tight aesthetic and editorial control. For me, the desire to do what I want to do, is more important than making money. (And I have a job that affords me the time to labor on my site...)

-bryant paul johnson
Tragi-Comix

Classification is hard with keenspot comics... specially because they're always changing. There would be too many comics in the "miscellaneous" category. For example, CRFH can be defined as a college strip, or an adventure strip, or a superhero (or anti-hero) comic, or a romantic serial, or a bunch of surreal nonsense. Cool Cat studio used to be Realistic and in some few months added scifi elements to the strip. It's Walky is a mix of gag strip, serial, scifi, angst, and silliness. Sinfest has no clear category to fit, or at least I don't see it. Few strips fall directly in a category, like Elf Life --> fantasy. The Class Menagerie is a furry comic, or a college comic? GPF is a geek tech comic or a mix or adventure, scifi and sitcom? Exploitation now is scifi/hentai/gag/adventure, and right now it looks like a road-movie strip.

Just my two pesos...

Maritza
CRFH.net

I have to be categorized?! Awww. So much for living in my secluded little world.

Anyway. Why I like Keenspot? It lets me do the cartooning, and everything else is automated. It's run by excellent people who put up with a lot of crap, and have much better ideas and organization than I do.

Not all art-types have the savvy to balance both the art and the promotional. That, and some of us have other jobs. For most people, this is just a hobby. It's mind-boggling to know that there are alternatives to self-publishing and syndication. In Keenspot, the "syndicators" are cartoonists themselves. They feel our pain. (And boy do they feel it, sometimes. Heh heh...)

Keenspot: Cool or Uncool? Well, if it weren't for them, I'd still be on Tripod...

--David www.itswalky.com

*remembers tripod, geocities and crosswinds*

BRRRRRR.....

Wow, good comments... Especially Scott Kurtz, who has (to my knowledge) the only non-dysfunctional webcomic business model on the web today. Keen can learn a lot. I'm not knocking what we've got over there (I'm a KeenSpot cartoonist--http://www.schlockmercenary.com), but bringing money in for it is still a challenge.

Don't get me wrong: I love KeenSpot, and am very happy there. Chris, Gav, Teri, and Nate have done an amazing thing, and have made webcomic-ing possible for a lot of folks who couldn't do it otherwise by providing the KeenSpace service (which, by the way, is not exclusive). I owe them a lot. Keen just needs to figure out how to translate readers into dollars at a better rate, because we've got readers coming out every available orifice.

Oh, wait. Was this thread about business, or about art? The CONTENT over at Keen is wonderful, but naturally not every comic appeals to everyone. I think we've got a great best-of-breed offering: sci-fi, fantasy, anthro, reality... whatever your interest, Keen has something really, REALLY good in that area just for you.

--Howard

I thought Sluggy was profitable...

And yes, the best thing about Keenspot (speaking as a reader, not a cartoonist) is the big broad variety of strips. That's bad for the people who gets lost, but good for reaching a large audience/demographics. I'm afraid that with only one editor/selector, we'll only have strips that particular editor likes... that means only one kind of strips.

Maritza
CRFH.net