I don't believe I mentioned criticism of Keenspot in my post. In fact, I think I only mentioned Keenspot as a disclaimer.

I'm talking about about us as individuals. What upset me was Mr. Kurtz throwing a line out about Sinfest and it's readership. Is Mr. Kurtz implying a decrease in Sinfest's readership is Keenspot's fault? Or, is he using a forum read by cartoonists to take a shot at Tatsuya? (By the way, as someone who has access to Keenspot statistics, I see no decline in Tatsuya's readership. And hooray for his success. He's one of the few non niche comics to enjoy a tremendous readership.)

That sir, is my problem. Criticize Keenspot all you want. Mr. Crosby can take it. And the Comics Journal etc. is not a forum for individual cartoonists to rip on each other. It does contain criticism of cartoonists - by critics.

I simply asked two questions and offered a suggestion. I did it politely and with no malice and disparaged no one. I did not question anyone's
readership levels nor did I question the talent of a great number of cartoonists by referring to them as "boat anchors."

Owen Dunne
You Damn Kid

Well, cartoonists *and* critics write for The Comics Journal. I have a lot of respect for the opinions of both groups.

Let's call a spade a spade.

Either Keenspot is a portal for high quality, professionally executed webcartoons, or it's a fannish collective of amateurs one step removed from an Amateur Press Association (and that one step only applies because it's online).

If Keenspot is claiming to be the the former, than the kid gloves are off. Criticizing a Keenspot comic, any Keenspot comic, should be no more problematic than criticizing an offering from DC, Marvel, or Top Shelf. And, by those lights, most Keenspot comics fall far short.

If Keenspot is an APA, on the other hand, then I and most other people would be perfectly willing to play nice, be supportive, and nurture the next generation of cartoonists.

Which is it?

Joey www.talkaboutcomics.com

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[This message has been edited by modernfear (edited 10-15-2001).]

This is where bullshit rumors about me being anti-keenspot get started.

For some reason, a lot of keenspotters want to talk business until you hit a topic that they don't like.

We're talking shop here and Sinfest being the crown jewel of Keenspot, it's numbers decreasing is certainly a topic of some interest. Why wouldn't I talk about it?

Go look at comicon.com's news page SPLASH and you'll see how almost daily, they post info about the fluctiations in the business end of print comics.

Tat's numbers are on a steady decline. Yes, that's of interest to me, and it should be of interest to you too, I would think.

It could be that Extreme tracking is reporting things incorrectly. It could be that Keenspot is throttling down Tat's site, only allowing so much bandwidth each month, it could be that interest in the strip is actually dropping (which I doubt).

Go look at Tat's extreme tracking stats and then come back here and tell me that those numbers don't interest you.

And then tell me why.

Again, and I don't know how I could be any clearer on this, I am not referring to, nor am I speaking on behalf of, Keenspot. I am not sensitive to criticism to Keenspot. Keenspot, sir, is not my baby. They host my comic strip. If you feel the need to bait me into some kind of discussion of what Keenspot is or isn't, forget it. I choose to read the comics as individuals. This exchange in fact, is an example of what I'm talking about. Forget about the collective. Forget about the corporation. It matters not whether Sinfest is hosted by Keenspot or Hotspot or Yourspot or Myspot. I simply asked, why take a shot a Tatsuya? Why dismiss so many comics by referring to them as boat anchors? To answer, "Because I'm entitled to" is weak. If criticism is, in the end, to be helpful as you suggested, then please tell how these will be. Yes, we all have the right as cartoonists or critics or readers or whatever to say this or that sucks. If the criticism is not constructive, then what's the point other than to be, in my eyes, mean spirited? That was, and still is, the emphasis of my posts.
In the end, we remember not the names of the syndicates, nor the critics, nor those who sponsored forums for discussion or criticism.

We remember the artists.

So I asked a question. From one creator to another. Why?

Look, these are two different discussions. You can't talk about the business of something as a whole without having to acknowledge that some artists, whether they are good people or not, are creating comics that aren't that great.

I know and understand that you are not speaking for keenspot. But we are talking about keenspot.

So to answer your question, I didn't take a shot at Tat. I brought up a statistic that I thought was very pertinent to the conversation at hand, which, if you go back and check, Keenspot.

Artist to artist, we'll have different discussions. One on one, if you want, we can talk about your strip and the business end of it never has to factor in.

I enjoy disucssing the business end of it. If you're only in it for the art, great for you. I'm in it because I love to cartoon and I love running a comic strip as a business. They are two seperate interests.

As for baiting people into conversations or arguments, don't try to bait me into explaining my opinions on which comics I think are good and which I think are bad.

It's okay for me to think some of the keenspot strips are bad, and it's okay for me to say so publically. It's nothing personal.

Thank you, Mr. Kurtz, for responding.

I don't mean to aid in any rumors getting started that you are "anti-Keenspot." As I said, over and over and over, this has nothing to do with Keenspot. In fact, I am by association being lumped into one of those Keenspotters who wants to talk business until I don't like it, blah, blah.
I only speak for myself and have never had any discussion with you on any topic.

That said, I don't give a damn about extreme. I said it before, and I'll say it again. I won't speak to specific numbers, but having access to statistics you don't, I can tell you flat out you're wrong about Sinfest.

Maybe Keenspot's doing this, maybe they're doing that...why speculate? Especially when your premise is inaccurate?

Yes, I understand that by having a dropdown on his page which contains a link to my site, I should be concerned about his numbers. I also understand that Sinfest is important to Keenspot. That's why I make it my business to know what I know.

Huh.

Mr. Kurtz, I wish you all the success in the world. I often read and enjoy your work.

Owen Dunne
You Damn Kid

Yeah. It doesn't make sense that his numbers would drop.

But extreme tracking is working great for me, so I figured it wasn't a problem with extreme tracking.

I'm glad you can keep yourself removed from keenspot yet still be a part of it....or not a part of it. Or only a subsection by association.

Whatever.

In closing...

My "bait" comment was not referring to you, Mr. Kurtz. We both must have been typing furiously at the same time.

Yes, I can be part of Keenspot in all respects and not presume to speak for them. I didn't think that needed clarifying, but, this talk of subsections...well.

As you so eloquently put it - whatever.

Peace and Love
Owen
You Damn Kid

Hey Owen, I just discovered your comic through this thread. Wow! Really funny outta-left-field stuff! Ten times better than the boat-anchor that is PvP, I must say!

[This message has been edited by goat (edited 10-15-2001).]

For what it's worth, I discovered the comic through this thread as well, and like it quite a bit. Despite Owen's flaming me above. I'd add it to the Quality Webcomics directory, but I doubt Owen wants to be associated with my site. Whatever.

Joey www.talkaboutcomics.com




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