I'm sure I'm reading more into the above phrase than was meant.

Just to put my mind at ease, though, Chris, please confirm that you meant "we're not taking the current economic downturn lying down," and not, "we take revenge on those who criticize us."

I'm honestly curious.

Joey www.talkaboutcomics.com


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Listen to Digital Comics Talk while you browse these boards:
http://www.talkaboutcomics.com/listennow.php

1) It's a collective not an employee-employer model. That has a lot of advantages. For one, each member of the group is subsidizing the business just by having their own jobs which provide their own benefits. They're also able to pool their resources and talents. A collective also addresses the problem you've correctly pointed out with individual websites suddenly dealing with audiences too large for an individual but not large enough for a corporation. By joining together, theoretically it gives them more bargaining power - in the same way that small businesses that join an insurance pool get better insurance deals.

2) They're not just online content providers, they're content providers. There's a difference there. Just as you provide PVP as a website and a printed book, and Astounding Space Thrills provides a strip that can reside on any website, Keenspot seems to me to be poised to provide their content in any form that can carry it. Books, magazines, online subscriptions. That versitility is a plus. Salon can't do that - they're not set up to do a printed version. But at the same time, Salon needs the branding that only a magazine or website can give. But any Keenspot comic can be a part of someone else's website or comic book or magazine, whether individually or as a specially designed comics page or as a paid-subscription model.

Which brings up my third point:

3) Keenspot is also like an agency with a pool of talent. Or a syndicate.

I don't mean for this to be an "Ode to Keenspot." I'm not predicting that they WILL be successful - Keenspot could fail. However, IF they make the right decisions I think they have the people and abilities to take advantage of a larger range of options than the "One website content provider" model that dominates the web.

Basically, I'm recognizing a good idea that, because of the reasons I listed above, has good potential to be a sustainable idea.

And I think it is a business, and as such can be discussed and dissected in the same way you can talk about any other business.

Regards, Tim Broderick http://oddjobs.keenspace.com

Scott:

>The question is, are those revenue sources
>currently generating more monthly income
>then your costs?

Currently, no, though we're coming very close. Whatever the case, we've got a lot of money in the bank that we saved for this rainy day, we have no debt (as Mr. Willis pointed out), and we're patient. We've only produced four comic books so far, the PREMIUM service is only now adding the really cool features (Warpkeen.com starts soon), and the toy sales operation has yet to launch. I think that we can be a profitable company, every single month, by early 2002.

>Matt, don't give a cent of the money you >earn from that print gig to Keenspot.
>That's your comic strip, you do all the
>work and you should reap all the benefits.

We told him we would be fine with that when we came to him with the magazine's offer last week. I'm not sure what his decision is yet. We don't see syndication as a major revenue stream for us, but it's something we've done before.

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Chris Crosby
Co-CEO, Keenspot Entertainment ( http://www.keenspot.com )
Cartoonist, SUPEROSITY ( http://www.superosity.com )

Joey:

>I'm sure I'm reading more into the above
>phrase than was meant.
>Just to put my mind at ease, though, Chris,
>please confirm that you meant "we're not >taking the current economic downturn lying >down," and not, "we take revenge on those
>who criticize us."
>I'm honestly curious.

LOL... wow.

To put your mind at ease, I DEFINITELY meant the first thing. What I meant is that we're not sitting around staring into the abyss while the online entertainment industry collapses around us. We're doing stuff, and have been doing stuff since we started, to ensure our survival. A lot of people have been acting like we've been doing the opposite, and it's just not true. That's what I was saying.

I personally find the concept of "revenge" to be immoral and against everything I stand for (unlike our nation's current President and many other people), and I value any criticism. Don't stop, please.

------------------
Chris Crosby
Co-CEO, Keenspot Entertainment ( http://www.keenspot.com )
Cartoonist, SUPEROSITY ( http://www.superosity.com )

[This message has been edited by Chris Crosby (edited 10-15-2001).]

One thing that I want to make more than abundantly clear:

I'm not hoping that anyone fails. In fact, I'm counting on the fact that everyone doesn't fail.

The business end of cartooning is very very important to me. I worry about it daily. If you think that I'm over here in Dallas, counting money and laughing...God you're so wrong.

I worry constantly...daily...about the business of my work and I hustle a lot to find new ways to keep PvP going. It's hard work and I know that the people at Keenspot are working just as hard if not harder.

Look, if I fail, I only have myself to dissapoint. If Chris, Nate, Terri and Darren fail, they have thousands of people to break the news to.

I don't like feeding or getting fed bullshit when I talk about this stuff. It's very real and very important to me and I think it's great that I can come on here and ask "Chris, are you making more than you are spending?" and he can say "We're breaking even."

That's fantasic. It's a public exchange of ideas, information and inspiration that can only help everyone who wants to turn this love of cartooning into a real and effective living.

I'm on vacation right now, visiting friends in Minnesota, but I'm working every day I'm here. It's insane really. I can't be away from the computer, a scanner or photoshop for more than a day. I'm worried that I'll miss orders coming in or an important phone call or email about a possible project.

What if my editor at PC Gamer needs to get a hold of me.

So to recap: I'm a mess. A happy mess, but a mess. Please don't think I'm some stuck up, pompous asswipe who feels he's untouchable.

I'm actually a pompous ass who's terrified that it all might go away.

I'm all for revenge! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

And cookies.

--David www.itswalky.com

Scott:

Right on.

------------------
Chris Crosby
Co-CEO, Keenspot Entertainment ( http://www.keenspot.com )
Cartoonist, SUPEROSITY ( http://www.superosity.com )

"That is strange. Somehow the really high quality strips are being held back by some mysterious force that prevents them from achieving true popularity while the crappy strips like PvP and sifest flourish."

Armageddon was far more "popular" than Annie Hall; what's your point? that your comic is as hackened and mundane and as lame as Armageddon in one reader's opinion? Sho' nuff!

You have a comic called "Player vs Player". About gaming. About people who play computer games. those people who probably frequent the internet more than the average person who might be into something like You Damned Kid. of course it's gonna be popular. that has nothing to do with quality.

"Tat and Scott have duped their readership into thinking that they produce quality work. Those cattle, those sheep, those PvP and Sinfest readers. Morons, the lot of them."

You got me there.

It's funny how you can't take it on the other side. You seem so carefree throwing your weight around on the little guys because you think you're the king at fucking prom, but when someone criticises your shit(using your own words, no less!) you have to go throw a tamper tantrum. boo hoo. It's not so easy to be objective and passive when you're the one being pissed on, is it?

get outta the way, your ego's blocking my sun. go to the bathroom, jerk off on your ego and go to sleep. your boring.

wait, on second thought, please stay. You're funny(not your comic). Better yet, go read You Damned Kid and learn something.

despite all the chest beating your bound to do post after post following this post, just remember that this all boils down one simple thing: Me, just a reader, liked another comic more than yours, expressed his opinion, and you turned into a little bitch.

whoo, look at the time!

I hate to admit it, but you're right.

Originally posted by David Willis:
[B]The reason Sinfest and PVP are successful are because they are good comics. People are stupid, but they aren't *that* stupid! [img]/resources/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

True, but I do think that people are very susceptible to pretty artwork and injokes.

Granted, sinfest has some of the best artwork i've seen anywhere, but i don't think there's much there in real substance. Just juvenile kneejerk reactions to all things "sacred". But I agree, there's room for that kind of material. I just don't think it's the-best-strip-ever good.