Predictable. Pally shows up like clockwork to cut-n-paste his usual nonsense.

You mean "catering to something that is popular and people will buy."

You did see how the sales have plummetted for Byrne's recent series, after respectable #1s.

It's a shame the expected back & forth snipping between Byrne & anti-Bryne factions came right after this excellant post by Elliot. It should be read & discussed more so than the "John Byrne is a wanker." ... "I know you are but what am I?" exchanges.

The thing about Moore's Watchmen (and possibly Miller's Dark Knight) was that it was never about 'Grim 'N' Gritty' for the sake of it. In that sense David Porta's also right here: Liking Watchmen was not about saying "I like Watchmen, therefore I like this 'Grim & Gritty' stuff - more! Give us more!".

Nonsense, DK2 was a postmodern masterpiece. Outside of the Clowes Death Ray comic, Watchman is the best superhero comic ever done.
Great post Elliot.

Christ, Byrne is such a negative Grump .... he's stuck in the '80s and can't understand why he gets no mainstream work ..... well, it's not because he can't draw .... it's because he's an offensive jerk !!

The industry response to Watchmen and Dark Knight was predictable. It's not unlike the response the TV industry had to something like "Muppet Babies".

"Hey--it's grown-up characters as babies! Kids want recognizable characters as babies and toddlers!"

So we got Flintstone Kids, Tom and Jerry Kids, etc. ad nauseam.

Of course, what kids really wanted was imaginative writing and well-designed and animated characters...which is what Muppet Babies had given them. The age was unimportant.

Similarly, the comics biz saw only the surface elements of Watchmen and Dark Knight...and proceeded to drive those elements into everything--including concepts that were totally inappropriate for them.

Paul, seriously, honestly, not even joking: Are you really and truly this much of an utterly worthless and mindless moron in your real life, or do you just play one on the Internet? Because I imagine you as a failure in life, clinging to the one thing you do "well" - make an idiotic, knee-jerk defense of anything and everything having to do with John Byrne simply because that's what you've tasked yourself with in life - even while your relationships sour, your bills go unpaid, your job performance suffers, and the people around you grow increasingly intolerant of your presense.

I mean, what's so cool about your posts is that it's not enough for you to be woefully misinformed at best and painfully, stupidly ignorant at worst. That's a given at this point; your grasp of facts and sound logic is funny enough to make my sides ache. No, what's cool is that you've so firmly hitched your horses to one of comicdom's great laughingstocks, you'll never, ever be able to get them untied.

Not that you want to. Your whole purpose, the ONLY reason you're even here, is to threadcrap on anything having to do with John Byrne. If it wasn't so hilarious, it'd be sad and worthy of pity. Maybe even worthy of a restraining order, as I can see you one day showing up at his door and killing him out of love.

What I'm saying is, Paul, you're probably mentally ill. Just like John Byrne.

"Yup. It sure is wrong to have wanted the business to retain it's HUGE fanbase prior to the "downfall"."

Right. Because comic books sales hadn't been declining for DECADES before Watchman appeared, of course.

Matthew

Stevv & Snoid - thanks

No he's not. He hasn't created anything in years. He's just doing other peoples stuff.


Why wouldn't he be jealous? Look at Frank Miller, arguably a guy who at one point a peer level creator at Marvel with Byrne, who now has gone on to great success creating his own properties and influencing greater pop culture through not just comics but cinema as well.

People are still talking about the influence of Watchmen, people are still reading Watchmen. And Moore has had much greater impact on the culture, with books like LOEG, V for Vendetta Lost Girls, From Hell, Tom Strong, all the ABC stuff, etc...

What has Mr. Byrne done in roughly the same timeframe as Mr. Miller? What is Mr. Byrne's current status? He's preaching to a small, but loyal cult of sycophants through a message board, where he rages against others who often are enjoying not only more success but greater reverence as well.

How could he not be jealous of guys like Alan Moore and Frank Miller?