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#252951 - 04/18/00 11:36 PM LESBIAN INCEST IN KIDS' CARTOONS?
Aaron White Offline
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Registered: 07/18/99
Posts: 269
Loc: Birmingham, AL
In a recent article on www.j-pop.com, Carl Gustav Horn wrote about "Eva's (Neon Genesis Evangelion) controversial use of narratives centered around art direction rather than animation." I think he's touched on something important here... A lot of anime uses visual compositions and eisensteinian editing to advance narrative, rather than actual animation. Of course, this is in large part because they don't have the resources for lavish animation. Some folks regard a stingy attitude towards animation as a flaw in an animated series, but what if perfectly respectable cinematic techniques that don't place a premium on lavish movement are used to tell the story well?

Goddammit, this is interesting stuff, and you're going to consider and discuss it even if it means I have to use shock subject lines to grab your habitually slack attentions.

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#252952 - 04/19/00 01:28 PM Re: LESBIAN INCEST IN KIDS' CARTOONS?
javier Offline
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Registered: 12/07/99
Posts: 42
you're better off discussing this at an anime forum! seems like there's not much interest for "neon genesis evangelion" here...

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#252953 - 04/19/00 01:41 PM Re: LESBIAN INCEST IN KIDS' CARTOONS?
Aaron White Offline
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Registered: 07/18/99
Posts: 269
Loc: Birmingham, AL
I'm not talking about Eva per se. Eva was just the trigger for it. Really, you can hate anime and still address the issue.

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#252954 - 04/19/00 04:10 PM Re: LESBIAN INCEST IN KIDS' CARTOONS?
Rick Bradford Offline
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Registered: 01/14/99
Posts: 982
Loc: Texas, USA
Aaron said: "but what if perfectly respectable cinematic techniques that don't place a premium on lavish movement are used to tell the story well?"

Yeah, but for many people (myself included), a still frame is a still frame. If you look at a scene in a film where a character is standing still, you'll still find movement in the frame (generally). The character's blinking, slight facial gestures, the wind is blowing, etc. Even in the 2-D world of comics, the same scene would still suggest movement to some degree. If you're talking about animation that allows for these sorts of things, then that's fine, but in my limited understanding of the process, it seems to me that "lavish movement" or subtle movement mean the same thing for the animators: work.

The thing that really bothers me about a lot of anime I've seen is that they try to suggest movement or action with a moving, repetitive background (kind of like 'action lines' in comics) behind a motionless character. I'm wondering what type of "perfectly respectable cinematic techniques" you might be thinking of.

--Ricko
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#252955 - 04/19/00 05:11 PM Re: LESBIAN INCEST IN KIDS' CARTOONS?
Aaron White Offline
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Registered: 07/18/99
Posts: 269
Loc: Birmingham, AL
Techniques such as telling the story by editing together a series of images that develop the narrative through contrasts. You don't need much in the way of movement within the screen to do this; in fact, purist Eisensteinian theory prefers uninflected shots.

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#252956 - 04/20/00 01:51 PM Re: LESBIAN INCEST IN KIDS' CARTOONS?
Rick Bradford Offline
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Registered: 01/14/99
Posts: 982
Loc: Texas, USA
Telling a story by editing together a series of images? If it doesn't need movement, why not make it a comic?

--Ricko
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#252957 - 04/20/00 03:08 PM Re: LESBIAN INCEST IN KIDS' CARTOONS?
Wadji Offline
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Registered: 01/19/99
Posts: 303
Loc: Los Angeles, Ca., USA
Two of the things that I liked about Evangelion, were the pans on stills and giant monsters beating the shit out of each other.

I didn't feel that the people at Gainix didn't know how to animate, or were in desperate need of animators but that they knew exactly when it was appropriate to show stills and when it was appropriate to have full blown animation.

Both are great ways to tell a story yet each one evokes a completely different mood.
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#252958 - 04/20/00 03:50 PM Re: LESBIAN INCEST IN KIDS' CARTOONS?
Aaron White Offline
Member

Registered: 07/18/99
Posts: 269
Loc: Birmingham, AL
Well, it isn't so much that movement isn't needed, but that change within the shot isn't needed. At least in theory. The best way to check out Eisensteinian theory is probably just to watch one of his movies. Notice that, although any given shot may have lots of action, the shots rarely start one way and end another. Changes and new information are given through cutting to a new image.

This is a key aspect of film theory that Eisenstein helped push, and it's tailor-made for animation on a budget. As for why not do it as a comic; well, with animation you get color, you get at least a little movement, and you get voice actors.

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#252959 - 04/24/00 01:30 AM Re: LESBIAN INCEST IN KIDS' CARTOONS?
Rik Offline
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Registered: 08/15/99
Posts: 225
Interestingly, I've been thinking a lot in the other dirrection. If Eisensteinian theory means jumping the camera from place to place, then I think this strange camera-as-point-of-view is strickly a 20th century thing that we will outgrow. In the future, movies will have few and fewer cuts from the action, normally only when time has past. Imagine all of Act I of a movie in one uninterupted burst with no cutaways, at least none that the viewer can detect. Phantom Menace has allready proved the computers can do it, as they edited actors from one take and mixed in actors from another take, or panned from a real set with actors to a CGI.

The guy from Mystery Science 3000, whose name I've forgotten, did this special all about how the camera lens represents the viewer, and it should be a set distance away from the action, and the action should move, not the viewer. (Remember when they did those skits on the show, and then the viewer, not the actors, went through the doors to the movie room?)

Rik

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#252960 - 04/24/00 11:37 AM Re: LESBIAN INCEST IN KIDS' CARTOONS?
javier Offline
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Registered: 12/07/99
Posts: 42
a series of shots without movement edited together make a story reel, not an animated film. i say that if it's not animated, it's not animation. it would be a weird tv-comic hybrid, perhaps the most limited animation of all since there is none! it would seem like an incomplete film since were so used to see drawings with movement in continuity on the screen. it's been done, in earlier animated film stages but not as polished or seen by a regular audience.

[This message has been edited by javier (edited 04-24-2000).]

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