#260162 - 05/21/03 04:11 PM
Re: Buffy 2003
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Registered: 09/30/99
Posts: 5910
Loc: Houston, TX
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Well, I didn't get it right about Buffy being depowered; they solved the "problem" of her being the lone Slayer by introducing the Green Slayer Corps. And by getting rid of the Sunnydale Hellmouth, which provided closure even though Buffy's adventures will implicitly go on.
On another board someone said that knowing about Spike's deal to appear on ANGEL robbed the 'death-scene' of any poignancy; I agree. Of course as long as the Whedonverse is around there's always the possibility of anyone dead coming back (hey, just like the comic books!) But the performances were great, and I'm convinced that despite Spike's cynical words the Buffster does love him in a fashion, but it'd never be unqualified. (Ironic to see Spike going the way of Riley.)
A lot of plot-threads were just cast to the winds: the implication, much discussed here, that the interruption in the Slayer line helped the First was the biggest dropped ball. Or maybe I need to listen to the episode again.
I definitely liked the solution to the lone slayer idea, and it opens up all sorts of possibilities for the Buffyless Buffyverse.
While Anya and Spike deserved to get mourned a little better (guess they were all somewhat in shock), they had good bow-outs, particularly Anya's gritting her teeth at the thought of the bunny invasion. Andrew had better moments than I expected: first he got to slay a Bringer with his sword, and implicitly learned how different it was from D&D, and later told a 'noble lie' to give Anya's death greater meaning-- his first really selfless effort, IMO.
No reaction from Wood about the killer of his mother being dead, but sacrificing himself to save the world. Oh well, that's another reason it needed to be two hours.
Gentlemen, it's the passing of an era.
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#260163 - 05/23/03 12:36 PM
Re: Buffy 2003
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Registered: 12/07/02
Posts: 213
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
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As a sometime-fan of this show I'm jumping into this thread for a sec to give my reaction to the finale. First, I have no idea why they didn't give it 2 hours. A piece of shit like CSI: Miami gets 2 hours for a season finale but a show as beloved as Buffy only gets one for its series closer? What's that about? The choice of which characters to kill seemed wholly dictated by spin-off series and movie concerns. Anya didn't deserve to go out like that--she was a fantastic character, a bit of comic relief that always brought a smile to my face when she appeared. She was also improperly mourned--that would have required maybe another half-hour. Since she wasn't in the original cast I guess Whedon figured it was okay to give her the heave-ho without undermining the character arc of the entire series. The rest of the scoobies are so completely co-dependant that killing anyone of them would ruin the rhythm of any spin-offs or movies. Apropos of a brief discussion of academia's relationship to Buffy that occurred somewhere in this forum way back when, here's a link to an interesting article in this week's Village Voice: http://www.villagevoice.com/vls/179/hampton.shtml My favorite episodes of this series are the post-Angel/pre-Dawn seasons (4 and 5, I think) when the show achieved a level of anarchic weirdness that was extremely original and compulsively watchable. But the writer of that article mentions an episode, "The Body", and calls it the greatest episode of the entire series. Never heard of it, but I'll have to try and rent it.
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#260164 - 05/23/03 04:08 PM
Re: Buffy 2003
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Member
Registered: 12/13/01
Posts: 137
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It's hard to pick out personal favorite episodes for me, because there's just too many...The Body is way up there though, along with Doppelganged (evil willow in regular sunnydale), the Zeppo (Xander's personal romp while something major goes on with the rest of the group), Once More with Feeling, of course, cuz it was just damn fun, and for one small twisted reason, I love Tabula Rasa, because it has a very very muppet moment in it.
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I'm a crazy money I could tear your eyes out Just like that No more eyes Watch your step
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#260165 - 05/23/03 09:38 PM
Re: Buffy 2003
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Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 4993
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
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Adam,
To address two of your questions:
"First, I have no idea why they didn't give it 2 hours. A piece of shit like CSI: Miami gets 2 hours for a season finale but a show as beloved as Buffy only gets one for its series closer? What's that about?"
Now, this is just a theory, and it's only MY theory; I've read or heard nothing about this particular episode which supports it. When Whedon divested some of his time and energy from BtVS and put it into Angel and Firefly and other things, he still had "his own episodes" every so often. Often they were season premieres, season finales. I could see him wanting to have the SERIES finale all to himself.
But, thing is, I've read interviews recently in which Whedon talks about being exhausted and overworked. It's entirely possible that he simply didn't have it in him to do two hours of writing and directing -- only one.
So, the viewer could ask, why not have others work on the first hour of a two-hour series finale? Well, Whedon might've possibly thought proprietously before he thought aesthetically about the situation. However, I'm not so sure that this alternative WOULD have resulted in the better episode. Yes, more time would have been devoted to certain elements of the story -- heck, maybe ALL elements of the story. But it might've not come off the same.
Whedon has solo written/directed many of the swellest and most important episodes of the series. A hybrid-creator finale might've, tho more spacious, might've had a different and even diluted tone. Rushed tho Chosen was, it does "read" like pretty pure Whedon, and that's good.
Especially since, honestly, I see it like this: some things, maybe all parts of the episode, might've been done *better* if Whedon had had two hours, but I think that the these key moments and happenings were still *good.* I think it was gene on this thread who commented that Anya's death was quick, her mourning abbreviated, but she nevertheless did go out in (Anya-esque) style, because of the form that last reference to her Bunnyphobia took.
One one of the message board I'm on I picked up on this, too, finding it a fitting tribute to Anya that her source of freak-out was turned around and made into "fuel" for her final, heroic actions. Just a touch, in the context of such a complex and packed episode, but if Whedon felt he had only a moment or two to spend on her, he used that moment or two very well.
I also thought it was great that she was allowed to get one last Tactlessly Truthful Anya moment in there before the series ended. It came when she confessed to being genuinely afraid of the upcoming battle. "I thought YOU'D/HE'D be afraid and I'd just be sarcastic about it...!" That was classic.
"Since she wasn't in the original cast I guess Whedon figured it was okay to give her the heave-ho without undermining the character arc of the entire series."
Another theory, but at least someone else is holding with it, too, as I've read this more than once on the internet. Supposedly Emma Caulfield has made it public that she definitely wants out of the Buffyverse. I read one thingie in which she said that she's probably not going to act for too much longer/forever... she wants to sooner or later retire from acting and devote more time to politics. She's an ardent Republican. If you're going to have some of your characters dies in your series finale, why not choose one played by an actress who's been adamant about not wanting to appear in any possible spin-off television or theatrical film project?
I know that's more or less just another way of saying what you said, but it makes decent sense. If Caulfield wanting out of Whedonville is true, for all we know she might've asked Whedon to kill Anya off!
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I actually know my favorite episode, quite firmly. It's a tie between two of them, tho. Dopplegangland (yay, k!) and Hush. The former was just super in every department, and important for later character continuity, but it also had two things going for it that put it over the top for me.
One was the opportunities the story provided Hannigan and how brilliantly she, wonderful actress that she is, made the most of them. Basically, she got to play four "characters": GoodReal Willow, BadAlternate Willow, GoodReal Willow Pretending to Be BadAlternate Willow, and, briefly in the cage, BadAlternate Willow Pretending to Be GoodReal Willow (and failing, delightfully). In a series full of terrific performances from Hannigan, this is still my favorite.
The other was Buffy's reaction when she really notices her "friend" talking with Xander in the bronze. As it turns out, SMG can be superb at comedy, too! I laugh my ass off every time at that one. Probably my favorite single yuck in the series.
As for Hush, well, it's merely an absolutely PERFECT little horror movie seamlessly inserted into the series' continuity. The Gentlemen are probably the best non-Big Bad demons ever, and the mood and pace and the... everything about this episode is just beautiful. It's also a really important episode for continuity. It's the super debut of my second-favorite BtVS character (after Willow): Tara; it's also a major turning point in Buffy's relationship with my fourth-favorite BtVS character (after Buffy herself): Riley.
And SMG provides another of my favorite laughs in Hush: her silent outrage at Giles' artistic interpretation of her at the Scoobie summit.
Others way up there would have to include The Body and The Gift. Emotional powerhouses and finely-crafted episodes, both. After that it gets SOOOO hard to choose and rank. Too many. But ever since it first aired I've always had a particularly soft spot for I Was Made to Love You, with Warren's tragic lovebot; and my favorite of the earliest episodes is Out of Mind, Out of Sight, with the super, gravelly-voiced Clea Duvall as Marcy, the neglected invisible girl.
Matthew
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#260166 - 05/23/03 10:52 PM
Re: Buffy 2003
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Member
Registered: 11/23/98
Posts: 2546
Loc: Cleveland Heights, OH 44106
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My favorite moment from BTVS was towards the end of season 5. The scenario was that Buffy had gone mute and staring, and Willow enters her head to see what's up.
Willow finds Buffy going through a cycle of reliving her life from early childhood, (then attacking Dawn, as I recall) always building up to a moment when Buffy sets a book back on a shelf. The mundane action is shown several times, always with a strange, jarring chord on the soundtrack. And we, like Willow, sense that this is somehow signifigant, that everything centers around this single moment.
It's revealed, eventually, that this was the moment that Buffy gave up and decided that she wasn't going to be able to defeat Glory.
Of course, the episode concludes with Buffy getting a hold of herself and coming out of it, to forge ahead and win her battle. But for me at least, that one moment lingers on as the single darkest, truest, most pessimistic and most unique statement of the series-- that sometimes your whole life can change in a single quiet moment
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Joe Zabel
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#260167 - 05/24/03 01:14 PM
Re: Buffy 2003
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Registered: 01/26/02
Posts: 1062
Loc: Tallahassee,FL
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Joe,your post reminds me that several times during the series Buffy lapsed into what could only be termed clinical depression. She certainly wasn't any slick,invulnerable heroine like,well,most heroines you could name. Almost Muhammed Aliesque,she used her spirit to fight,if she could believe she could win,she could. The Slayer always finds a way. That's why I liked the solution for the 'one Slayer problem'. Like most of you,I think it provides a great launching point for new work,but mostly because a series-long burden is finally lifted--and I'm a sucker for a happy ending! Favorite episode? I can't really think of which I thought was best crafted or most profound,but the Xander 'split into two personalities' was really funny. It marked his graduation to a more mature version of the character,a development the other characters underwent as well. Just one of those done-in-one episodes that was funny,frightening,thoughtful and transforming. And there were lots of those episodes,great series! "And he even did the snoopy dance"
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#260168 - 05/24/03 03:41 PM
Re: Buffy 2003
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Member
Registered: 11/23/98
Posts: 2546
Loc: Cleveland Heights, OH 44106
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My favorite line from that episode is when Giles complains that he's a bad influence on himself... :p
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Joe Zabel
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#260169 - 05/24/03 08:28 PM
Re: Buffy 2003
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Member
Registered: 12/13/01
Posts: 137
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awww *sigh* Giles...we'll never get to see him sing again
*still mourning*
_________________________
I'm a crazy money I could tear your eyes out Just like that No more eyes Watch your step
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#260170 - 05/24/03 10:07 PM
Re: Buffy 2003
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Member
Registered: 12/14/01
Posts: 2381
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Just a sidenote, the "CSI: Miami" season finale was actually 1:45 minute and not 2 hours. This was only done so they could make the "Everybody Loves Raymond" seson finale supersized like NBC has done with their "best" comedies.
As far as favorite Buffy episodes go, well, "The Body" isn't just a great Buffy episode, it's a great hour of television. It truly feels more real than other series episodes. Why that didn't win some type of Emmy is beyond me.
Now, all I have to look forward to is the reairing of the A&E TVography on Buffy and the eventual tv reunion movie or feature film.
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