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#277906 - 12/19/98 01:19 PM Bad News for free speech
Bradly E Peterson Offline
Member

Registered: 11/23/98
Posts: 322
Loc: Fort Worth, Tx USA
NOTE: For some reason, I logged off without reading the message I posted. I said it wrong. The following has been re-edited to clarify

Hey...

It has happened. President William Jefferson Clinton has just been impeached. The votes are in, and it is done. I've just turned off the radio. I just wanted to send this warning to all creators, that we've turned a corner, and wanted you to be ready for the ramifications that will follow.

Al Gore could become President of The United States of America. Tipper Gore could become the first lady.

The enemies of Freedom Of Speech may have just gained friends in very high places. Watch out for yourself, and your fellow creators.
Please give to the Comic Book Legal Defense Fund. Things just got a lot tougher.

------------------
Bradly E. Peterson
Psychodrama Press
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds"
(Albert Einstein)
http://www.fastlane.net/homepages/drama/


[This message has been edited by Bradly E Peterson (edited 12-19-98).]
_________________________
Bradly E. Peterson
Psychodrama Press
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds"
(Albert Einstein)
www.fastlane.net/homepages/drama/

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#277907 - 12/19/98 02:02 PM Re: Bad News for free speech
Carlton Donaghe Offline
Member

Registered: 11/23/98
Posts: 1619
Loc: the American Desert
You're wrong Bradly.

Things may have gotten tougher, but it's because the Republicans have railroaded a President against the wishes of the American people, not because Al Gore has gotten one step closer to the White House.

Just because someone wants to put a label on a product that advertises that it's content is not suitable for all ages does not make them against free speech. As a matter of fact, in some ways you could say-- given the excesses of the religious fanatics in this country-- such labels might insure the continuance of free speech.

Please don't make the mistake of turning on your friends just because they may not do or say everything you want them to. In the political climate we are in, much cooler heads must prevail.

And I've got two words for the proper response to the Republicans for THEIR impeachment of Clinton: "Recall Election."
_________________________
Without Wax,
Carlton Donaghe
somewhere along the Rio Grande

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#277908 - 12/19/98 02:24 PM Re: Bad News for free speech
Eric L Kent Offline
Member

Registered: 11/22/98
Posts: 178
Loc: Mt. Washington,KY,USA
Quote:
Carlton said:And I've got two words for the proper response to the Republicans for THEIR
impeachment of Clinton: "Recall Election."


Now this is where I'm sure EVERYONE will disagree with me. I helped put Clinton in office the first time..I'm sorry for that now. I care not that he had sex...I DO however care that he had an affair(or affairs) in the White House that he should feel honored to stay in and that he then lied about this to a Grand Jury. He lied. He should take what comes.

As to the Recall Election that I keep hearing..it would ONLY be a recalled election if we took Clinton AND Gore out together and installed Bob Dole.


Just weighing in with my opinion and yes I've been watching all of this on CNN the last few weeks as I draw instead of sitting at the drawing table.

------------------
Eric L. Kent
Logan and the Bunny Squadron ONLINE Now at a Powermage Website near YOU!
Powermage Studios
members.aol.com/kurserod/welcome.htm
_________________________
Eric L. Kent
"Tragic Heroes" and "Logan and the Bunny Squadron" coming soon to a shop near you
www.ancientstudios.com

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#277909 - 12/19/98 03:42 PM Re: Bad News for free speech
Carlton Donaghe Offline
Member

Registered: 11/23/98
Posts: 1619
Loc: the American Desert
Mr. Kent, I entirely sympathize with you concerning your stand on the Clinton issue. I just think that, regardless, this was nothing more than a Republican plot to remove a political enemy from power.

But about the "recall"-- what I meant was that we should have a recall of the Republicans in office because they disobeyed the will of the people.

Recall all elected Republicans. Get out and vote!
_________________________
Without Wax,
Carlton Donaghe
somewhere along the Rio Grande

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#277910 - 12/19/98 05:00 PM Re: Bad News for free speech
Bradly E Peterson Offline
Member

Registered: 11/23/98
Posts: 322
Loc: Fort Worth, Tx USA
Carlton Donaghe done said this here deal:
Quote:
You're wrong Bradly. Things may have gotten tougher, but it's because the Republicans have railroaded a President against the wishes of the American people, not because Al Gore has gotten one step closer to the White House.


Not quite. I'd say that both are bad, not one or the other.

Quote:
Just because someone wants to put a label on a product that advertises that it's content is not suitable for all ages does not make them against free speech. As a matter of fact, in some ways you could say-- given the excesses of the religious fanatics in this country-- such labels might insure the continuance of free speech.


There is no need for a label to state that content is not suitable for all ages. This deplorable practice is not used by the rest of the literary world. The only books that they label are porno and childrens' books. Labels for porn are understandible, and necessary. Labels for parents to identitfy books that are aimed at children is a wonderful idea. However, the labelling to denote unsuitable content is patently ridiculous. This only helps witch hunters who wish to ban certain material they dislike.

Quote:
Please don't make the mistake of turning on your friends just because they may not do or say everything you want them to. In the political climate we are in, much cooler heads must prevail.


I'm not the least bit guilty of "turning on my friends. People who favor handing parental responsibility over to the government are no friends of mine. As for cooler heads prevailing, I agree. That's why I said to look after yourself and your fellow creators. It's not the time to panic. It's time to prepare for any threats that may, and I emphasize the word MAY come our way. The first step to avoiding a trap is knowing that it is there.

Quote:
And I've got two words for the proper response to the Republicans for THEIR impeachment of Clinton: "Recall Election."


Eric's right. Even the NPR people got it wrong when they were discussing it, and someone had to break in to correct them on it. heh...

Carlton, I agree somewhat. Only Two more years until this rolls around, and as you well know, the Republicans approval rating is the lowest that it has been in years. The issue of the people's opinion in the proceedings really isn't an issue at all, and doesn't even come into it. However, the fact that the whole thing was a completely partisan coup-de-tat made me feel very sad. They were actually willing to ignore the precedents set in the past for impeachment, and grab at anything they could to get President Clinton out of office. I hope the voters remember exactly HOW vindictive the republicans were today. I hope the nation never forgets, so that this sort of abuse does not occur again.


------------------
Bradly E. Peterson
Psychodrama Press
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds"
(Albert Einstein)
http://www.fastlane.net/homepages/drama/


[This message has been edited by Bradly E Peterson (edited 12-19-98).]

[This message has been edited by Bradly E Peterson (edited 12-19-98).]
_________________________
Bradly E. Peterson
Psychodrama Press
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds"
(Albert Einstein)
www.fastlane.net/homepages/drama/

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#277911 - 12/19/98 07:11 PM Re: Bad News for free speech
Carlton Donaghe Offline
Member

Registered: 11/23/98
Posts: 1619
Loc: the American Desert
Well said, Bradly.

[This message has been edited by Carlton Donaghe (edited 12-19-98).]
_________________________
Without Wax,
Carlton Donaghe
somewhere along the Rio Grande

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#277912 - 12/19/98 11:16 PM Re: Bad News for free speech
Eric L Kent Offline
Member

Registered: 11/22/98
Posts: 178
Loc: Mt. Washington,KY,USA
Quote:
I hope the voters remember exactly HOW vindictive the republicans
were today. I hope the nation never forgets, so that this sort of abuse does
not occur again.


Vindictive? Come on...did they really seem vindictive? I'm serious here..maybe I just see different than others. For example to me John Conyers and Maxine Waters have to be the two most ANNOYING people on the face of this planet. And Gephart(sp)pisses me off with his holier-than-thou attitude every time he opens his mouth.

And it's funny now that the impeachment is over so are the airstrikes....hmmm [img]/resources/ubb/wink.gif[/img]

And I truly believe the next prez will be ol' Bush Jr..

Again just my ramblings... [img]/resources/ubb/wink.gif[/img]

------------------
Eric L. Kent
Logan and the Bunny Squadron ONLINE Now at a Powermage Website near YOU!
Powermage Studios
members.aol.com/kurserod/welcome.htm
_________________________
Eric L. Kent
"Tragic Heroes" and "Logan and the Bunny Squadron" coming soon to a shop near you
www.ancientstudios.com

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#277913 - 12/21/98 02:48 PM Re: Bad News for free speech
Matthew High Offline
Member

Registered: 11/30/98
Posts: 158
Regarding Tipper Gore/PMRC stuff:

Do they even put those labels on music anymore? I haven't noticed them lately... or is this because no one wants to put out music that had vulgar words in it? I listen to plenty of vulgar stuff...

It seemed as if the real problem came down to whether Sears, Kmart, or Walmart will carry something with a label on it... I wonder if these days, given the internet, if there is a trend away from such fakey-moralistic retailing. Besides, and this is what I wondered, who buys music at Walmart?

Robert

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#277914 - 12/21/98 07:38 PM Re: Bad News for free speech
Bradly E Peterson Offline
Member

Registered: 11/23/98
Posts: 322
Loc: Fort Worth, Tx USA
As for not seeing the labels on music much lately, that's because it's not quite election time. It always goes in cycles. When was Mike Diana busted? Pre-Election time in Oklahoma. When does ANY of this sort of crap happen? Before election time.

The cycle is coming back around. Hope it doesn't run us over.

------------------
Bradly E. Peterson
Psychodrama Press
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds"
(Albert Einstein)
http://www.fastlane.net/homepages/drama/
_________________________
Bradly E. Peterson
Psychodrama Press
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds"
(Albert Einstein)
www.fastlane.net/homepages/drama/

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#277915 - 12/21/98 07:51 PM Re: Bad News for free speech
R. Earles Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/98
Posts: 164
Loc: Evansville, IN, USA
Yes, they still use the warning labels...

The really weird thing is that their use is almost purely restricted to black recording artists. You don't see many rap albums without the warning sticker; but they play songs by Alanis Morrisette and Pearl Jam on the radio that have the word "shit" in them and don't even bleep them out.

Go figure.

Tipper Gore will be first lady!





------------------


---
http://i.am/thestork
---

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#277916 - 12/21/98 09:22 PM Re: Bad News for free speech
Noel Savory Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/15/98
Posts: 1
Loc: London ,England,U.K.
What?

Eric. Christmas isn't until friday,you can't
be drunk already.

I live in England and through the magic of
cable and satelite TV have(as has the whole
world), watched this whole thing going down
over this past year.

Now I don't presume to speak for the rest
of the world, but jeez, you really saying that the vindictiveness of this whole process
has really slipped pass you?

The man is being Impeached not even over a blowjob but essentially over whether he lied
about feeling her up while she was doing it.

And that sounds like a good reason to remove the President from office?

Man this world is truly doomed.

Armaggedon awaits.

-Noel.

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#277917 - 12/22/98 12:49 AM Re: Bad News for free speech
Eric L Kent Offline
Member

Registered: 11/22/98
Posts: 178
Loc: Mt. Washington,KY,USA
Quote:
whether he lied
about feeling her up while she was doing it.

And that sounds like a good reason to remove the President from office?>


Nope not drunk. But I do have a problem with lying under oath. If that had been me lying under oath I would be in a cell and not typing this message. I don't care what he lied about as long as he lied under oath. And the simple fact is that if this was a republican or even Independent President..he would have had his skin flayed from his bones and we'd see people marching in front of the White House saying what bastards they are and demanding they resign.

So no. I stick by my guns and think Clinton shames not only me but the whole of the United States as well. I don't give a damn how popular a president he is. A liar is a liar. Plain and simple. I can't trust him to tell his wife the truth..how can I trust him to run the very country that I love and live in?




------------------
Eric L. Kent
Logan and the Bunny Squadron ONLINE Now at a Powermage Website near YOU!
Powermage Studios
members.aol.com/kurserod/welcome.htm
_________________________
Eric L. Kent
"Tragic Heroes" and "Logan and the Bunny Squadron" coming soon to a shop near you
www.ancientstudios.com

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#277918 - 12/22/98 01:10 AM Re: Bad News for free speech
Carlton Donaghe Offline
Member

Registered: 11/23/98
Posts: 1619
Loc: the American Desert
You know what's funny though, Eric, is that during the entire Iran-Contra affair, Reagan, Bush, Ollie North, all of them lied under oath, and not ONE thing was done to them. What's worse, Reagan went on TV, same as Clinton, swearing he didn't trade arms for hostages (or whatever scandal it was at the time), then three months later came out and said that, while he didn't feel like he lied, 'the facts tell him that he did.' Same as with Clinton, except that Reagan was doing far worse than engaging in consensual sex. He was doing business with peoples lives and smuggling drugs that his government sold to buy weapons with. Now to the Republicans, Reagan is some kind of hero, and it is these very Republicans who conspired to nail Clinton on whatever they could-- they just got lucky that Clinton is his own worst enemy.
So, you feel bad that Clinton shamed this country, huh? How bad do you feel that Reagan and his cronies looted the wealth of the American people, I wonder?
_________________________
Without Wax,
Carlton Donaghe
somewhere along the Rio Grande

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#277919 - 12/22/98 01:12 AM Re: Bad News for free speech
Bradly E Peterson Offline
Member

Registered: 11/23/98
Posts: 322
Loc: Fort Worth, Tx USA
Eric L. Kent done said this here deal:
Quote:
I don't care what he lied about as long as he lied under oath.


The only reason he ended up there is simple. They searched and searched until they could find a specific question that they knew he would HAVE to lie about. Think about it, he was asked in front of his wife and the WHOLE COUNTRY if he cheated on his wife. Me? If I HAD to answer the question, as Clinton did (he was not allowed to plead the fifth amendment), and I HAD cheated on my wife, I would have lied too. It had absolutely nothing to do with the investigation... Remember, it was the "WHITE WATER" investigation, and slowly but surely, it became the "Lewinsky Case", and no longer an investigation. There was no "case". It was an investigation, and the Lewinsky business had nothing to do with White Water. So, why did they even go there? Because they were out to get him, and abused their power to do it. Yes, that's right. Kenneth Starr should be brought up on charges. It's a sad, sad point in US History. They railroaded Clinton, pure and simple.

------------------
Bradly E. Peterson
Psychodrama Press
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds"
(Albert Einstein)
http://www.fastlane.net/homepages/drama/
_________________________
Bradly E. Peterson
Psychodrama Press
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds"
(Albert Einstein)
www.fastlane.net/homepages/drama/

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#277920 - 12/22/98 01:17 AM Re: Bad News for free speech
Eric L Kent Offline
Member

Registered: 11/22/98
Posts: 178
Loc: Mt. Washington,KY,USA
Quote:
How bad do you feel
that Reagan and his cronies looted the wealth of the American people, I
wonder?


Then they should have went after him. I'm not just going after Clinton because he is a democrat. That would make me as bad as he is for saying he is only being hunted for being a democrat.

I was young when Reagan did all of that also. Not an excuse of course..just that this with Clinton is happening in a time when I am politically aware and can speak about it.

As far as weapons...didn't Clinton also sell missle codes to China? Every president seems to arm countries all over the world and set their governmental regimes in power...and then when the regime argues with us...BOOM. That's a fact. It's the way it is. I don't like that either. So bomb me all you want also...like I said before it's just my opinion. That is why we formed the democracy in America right?





------------------
Eric L. Kent
Logan and the Bunny Squadron ONLINE Now at a Powermage Website near YOU!
Powermage Studios
members.aol.com/kurserod/welcome.htm
_________________________
Eric L. Kent
"Tragic Heroes" and "Logan and the Bunny Squadron" coming soon to a shop near you
www.ancientstudios.com

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#277921 - 12/22/98 01:18 AM Re: Bad News for free speech
Carlton Donaghe Offline
Member

Registered: 11/23/98
Posts: 1619
Loc: the American Desert
Mr. Peterson, I whole-heartedly concur.
_________________________
Without Wax,
Carlton Donaghe
somewhere along the Rio Grande

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#277922 - 12/22/98 01:22 AM Re: Bad News for free speech
Eric L Kent Offline
Member

Registered: 11/22/98
Posts: 178
Loc: Mt. Washington,KY,USA
Quote:
Because they were out to get him, and abused their power to do it.
Yes, that's right. Kenneth Starr should be brought up on charges. It's a sad,
sad point in US History. They railroaded Clinton, pure and simple.


Let's do it then. Bring Starr and Reno while we are at it up on charges. They deserve it also.





------------------
Eric L. Kent
Logan and the Bunny Squadron ONLINE Now at a Powermage Website near YOU!
Powermage Studios
members.aol.com/kurserod/welcome.htm
_________________________
Eric L. Kent
"Tragic Heroes" and "Logan and the Bunny Squadron" coming soon to a shop near you
www.ancientstudios.com

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#277923 - 12/22/98 01:23 AM Re: Bad News for free speech
Carlton Donaghe Offline
Member

Registered: 11/23/98
Posts: 1619
Loc: the American Desert
Actually, Eric, I don't think Clinton sold any missile codes to China. That's an allegation that, as far as I know, is unproven. I will say, though, that it's something all of my Republican relatives in Texas believe. But then, they also say that the only reason that Vietnam vets came back hating the war was because their heads were messed up from drugs, so...

Hey, has anyone heard Alan Moore's CD "Brought Into the Light," or whatever dadgum thing it's called?
_________________________
Without Wax,
Carlton Donaghe
somewhere along the Rio Grande

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#277924 - 12/22/98 01:28 AM Re: Bad News for free speech
Eric L Kent Offline
Member

Registered: 11/22/98
Posts: 178
Loc: Mt. Washington,KY,USA
Quote:
Actually, Eric, I don't think Clinton sold any missile codes to China. That's an
allegation that, as far as I know, is unproven.


Yeah I know it's all allegations..I heard it on the radio from an Army General a few months back.

And on this whole topic..Carlton and Bradly both...I don't want to seem like I'm attacking your beliefs or your stances on this horrible situation. I just have strong feelings on this and would like to think that the President of our nation would be so morally above this. I also know that Marvel would cancel all of their X-men comics tommorrow if this could be true.

So don't take my comments personally..ya know I luv ya both....lol

------------------
Eric L. Kent
Logan and the Bunny Squadron ONLINE Now at a Powermage Website near YOU!
Powermage Studios
members.aol.com/kurserod/welcome.htm
_________________________
Eric L. Kent
"Tragic Heroes" and "Logan and the Bunny Squadron" coming soon to a shop near you
www.ancientstudios.com

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#277925 - 12/22/98 02:28 AM Re: Bad News for free speech
Mute Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/98
Posts: 465
The Alan Moore CD to which Carlton refers (his third) is titled Brought To Light, and is an adaptation to performance of the comic of the same name. Anybody got a copy they don't want?

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#277926 - 12/22/98 09:41 AM Re: Bad News for free speech
cindy Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/30/98
Posts: 11
Loc: cleveland, ohio
As to this whole mess about Clinton.



I have always voted democrat. I voted for Clinton. And I still think he should resign.



I don't care at all about the sex.I am happy for him. But,our system is based on "telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth" while in a court of law. Clinton disregarded this foundation of our judicial system. Even if he was railroaded by Republicans, it still wrong, really wrong.


If Clinton believed thier was a right wing plot to bring him down...why did he blatently commit a felony?


If any other public official, judge, lawyer, teacher would be suspect of this kind of felony crime, they would have been put on leave without pay during investigation and the hearings. Then would have suffered the consequences of court and the law. Just because this Clinton is a charming and charismatic man and our economy is excellent should we let him be above the law?



I don't really know.



But, I am sticking by "all men are created equal" even if I am not sure if it is true.



Sorry to burden you with more Clinton stuff.
Have a happy holiday.

Cindy

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#277927 - 12/22/98 10:36 AM Re: Bad News for free speech
Eric L Kent Offline
Member

Registered: 11/22/98
Posts: 178
Loc: Mt. Washington,KY,USA
Quote:
Cindy typed: But, I am sticking by "all men are created equal" even if I am not sure if it is
true.


Sorry to burden you with more Clinton stuff.
Have a happy holiday.


Now that is a smart lady! [img]/resources/ubb/wink.gif[/img]

Happy Holidays yourself Cindy!





------------------
Eric L. Kent
Logan and the Bunny Squadron ONLINE Now at a Powermage Website near YOU!
Powermage Studios
members.aol.com/kurserod/welcome.htm
_________________________
Eric L. Kent
"Tragic Heroes" and "Logan and the Bunny Squadron" coming soon to a shop near you
www.ancientstudios.com

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#277928 - 12/22/98 12:00 PM Re: Bad News for free speech
dltallan Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/27/98
Posts: 24
Loc: Toronto
A) Shouldn't this really be in the "Gutters" section?

C) Does anyone really believe that a person who is unwilling to lie has *any chance whatsoever* of making their way through the political party system to the point where they could be elected to office?

Let's get serious here. There's a whole heap of politicking one has to go through to be a Democrat or Republican candidate for the Presidency. Anyone who has major scruples about lying stands no chance of making it through all of that politics.

I doubt very much there has been a president since Washington who "cannot tell a lie" (and I doubt Washington was unable, too).

C) I was under the impression that the Constitution specifically doesn't say that all crimes are impeachable, only the "high" ones. The framers of the Constitution didn't have to put that "high" word in there.

It seems to me that they were trying to make a distinction between major and minor crimes and declaring that only major crimes were impeachable. (I'm willing to hear other theories as to why they would add the word.) If lying about an affair is a major crime, what's a minor crime?

YMMV, of course.
_________________________
David Tallan
dtallan@interlog.com
Read the first issue of GALAXION for FREE at:
http://www.interlog.com/~dtallan/galaxion/

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#277929 - 12/22/98 01:42 PM Re: Bad News for free speech
Tim Gagne Offline
Member

Registered: 11/23/98
Posts: 433
Loc: Chicago, IL USA
The Clinton "scandal" has shown the country just how "bipartisan" our elected officials are. Everybody is wrong on this issue. The fact that Linda tripp backstabbed Lewinsky who got soiled by Clinton who lied about Jones... Our government and nation is an embarassment in the international community.

All of this opens up the road for an independent candidate (Jesse "the brain" Ventura ring a bell?) to march in and take the country by storm. Hell, Jerry Springer was a mayor...

Maybe if we all just stuck to comics.

And as far as Gore affecting free speech, we still have Larry Flynt on our side. Of course giving to the CBLDF is still a good idea.

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