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#281181 - 07/26/99 05:28 PM "Comicon.com and a poor use of aggressive colors" revisited
Dan Holloway Offline
Member

Registered: 06/03/99
Posts: 96
Loc: Tampa/Tallahassee FL
After much debate both at the TCJ message board and within the "Timespell#4" thread here at comicon, I have decided to make the thread and comments in question known to those here at comicon who may not be aware of them. I would repost the entire thread here, but the amount of space that would take up within one post would be ludicrous, and no one would read it in that form anyway.

http://www.tcj.com/messboard/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000048.html

I urge every comicon.com board regular to read the thread at the URL provided AND THEN REPLY ON THIS THREAD AT COMICON if you should feel moved to do. Please keep your replies here if for no other reason than to keep the already somewhat large TCJ thread from becoming unweildly. Also, please read the whole thing before responding. Half assed comments will be ignored.

[This message has been edited by Dan Holloway (edited 07-26-99).]

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#281182 - 07/26/99 06:20 PM Re: "Comicon.com and a poor use of aggressive colors" revisited
Robert Offline
Member

Registered: 02/23/99
Posts: 851
Loc: The belly of the beast
www.tcj.com/messboard/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000048.html

Well I see Dan Holloway beat me to the punch (if just barely) in posting this topic here. Of course I had a far more engaging title but I'll defer to Holloway's original.

But instead of readers having to bounce back and forth between Comicon and tcj.com, I've decided to copy a healthy selection of the posts here for your reading pleasure. The posts haven't been edited to generate any sort of bias. I think they speak for themselves...



DAN HOLLOWAY [40-plus Comicon posts]:
"Is it me, or do the cluttered layout, faceless humanoid graphics and gross overabundance of the color red give you that real life spine chilling shock of horror that you get everytime you walk into a really bad comic shop? Is this the look they're going for? I suppose it is a convention on the web, so they have already succeded in that "may induce nausiea in anyone not wearing a two sizes too small Teen Titans T-shirt" qualification. But please, someone tell my why on god's green earth red is the dominant color! They could still make me sick without instilling me with those primal images of fear, blood, and hate every time I look at the screen!

JAVAGIRL [30-plus comicon posts]: Dearest Dan,I agree! Their Messboard is an eyesore!


TIMOTHY MTPANIC MILLER[30-plus comicon posts]: It doesn't help that they're flashing banners at the top of the site frame AND on each bulletin board page. I've seen that "Red Planet Pioneer, Mars is PULSATING" ad so many times I'm wondering if the thing is printed on paper or recycled foreskins with all the pulsating it's apparently doing. Never mind aggressive colors though, it's just plain an aggressive CROWD. I go on there to talk about COMICS and I find myself wanting to beat some idiot asshole (more) senseless. Thank God for the Journal high road.

DAN HOLLOWAY: Bookmark the Comicon bulletin board?!! What if a friend were to use my computer, casually browse through my bookmarks, and find that I actually visit such a sight? I like to keep my bookmarks file relegated only to websites specifically devoted to midget pornography and Rugrats fan pages. Standards! Standards!

DAN HOLLOWAY: Damn right! And if I can't view the Comicon board when I'm supposed to be working, I'm just plain not going to view it! There's not a damn thing there worth wasting free time on.

KARON FLAGE [aka The Voice of Reason]:
Don't suppose it occurred to any of y'all to email Steve and Rick with your feedback? They do like to know what people think of the interface.
Personally, I think coming over here to complain about comicon's interface is as useful as going over there to complain about this board's posting restrictions

ROBERT YOUNG: Ironic that most of the people bitching here about Comicon spend as much time there as they do here. Also ironic that the most substantial debate going on either board is currently raging between Gary Groth and Rick Veitch at (guess where?) Comicon! Oh and note to the colorblind: See The Comics Journal logo at the top of the page. Half of it is ~gasp~ RED! Horrible isn't it?

MILO GEORGE [50-Plus Comicon posts]:
Robert Young took a break from cataloging the wit and wisdom of funnybook autistic savant Samuel Catalino to write:
"Ironic that most of the people bitching here about Comicon spend as much time there as they do here."
Sort of like how more than a few of your recent postings on this board are solely to defend the Comicon board?
"Also ironic that the most substantial debate going on either board is currently raging between Gary Groth and Rick Veitch at (guess where?) Comicon!"
Where you can also read the comics-related and oh-so-intelligent 300+ post five man gangbang [Robert being one of them] centered on RICK and Samuel Catalino. Even the most spirited of discussions about Danny Hellman's cyber-graffiti have never cracked triple digits.
Spindoctor, heal thyself.

TIMOTHY MTPANIC MILLER: It's very simple, Comicon, when it doesn't devolve into fanboy apologism and childish nose-thumbing, has a broader view, and serves it's purpose. The Journal board is where I go when I want intelligent conversation, and sometimes, I even get it!

[more to come]



[This message has been edited by Robert (edited 07-26-99).]
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#281183 - 07/26/99 06:38 PM Re: "Comicon.com and a poor use of aggressive colors" revisited
Robert Offline
Member

Registered: 02/23/99
Posts: 851
Loc: The belly of the beast
ROBERT YOUNG: Well Milo again leaps to the head of the line of the Hypocrite Club.

Milos wrote: "Sort of like how more than a few of your recent postings on this board are solely to defend the Comicon board?"

Uh, yeah where's the correlation dimbulb?

I'm not flying over to comicon to slam tcj(which a goodly number of people have), now am I? In fact, I've spent a fair amount of time at comicon defending the print version of TCJ. Perhaps you'd know that if you actually did something other than lurk in the gutters counting the number of posts.

And since you're so readily lumping me in with the likes of RICK and Catalino, why not include Kim Thompson in our little "gangbang?" He's certainly had his share of words for all of the participants you mention
And why not lump yourself in with Danny Hellman while you're at it? Surely you two have exchanged words about his "cyber-graffiti?" But I guess that wouldn't be convenient to your snotty little argument, would it?

My point was this: I've seen several of the names on this thread attached to multiple posts at Comicon. Yet the same people sneek over here for their little rants (as if anyone over here can do anything about the layout on another site). So why not post your complaints where the people who can do something about them will actually read them?
And by the way Milos: I was posting here long before the purge (or Spurge, as it were).

[on a simular note: I made the mistake of jokingly correcting Milos on his misuse of the word "threw" in one of his many oh-so-witty posts at, you guessed it, comicon. I guess this is where he came to get his revenge?

KIM THOMPSON [366! comicon posts]:
Robert: Quit being fatuous and obnoxious. (Okay, that's a tall order: Quit being fatuous and obnoxious on this board, then.)
Making fun of someone for misspelling "intelligent" and then, THREE words later, coughing up "simular" gives you the glass-house-of-the-week award, no contest.
And as I'm sure you must know, I've kept myself well out of the idiotic Gutter "gangbangs" for many weeks now -- I participated only when it was the gun debate, which was genuinely interesting.
Actually, every single thing you said in your two posts on this thread was either wrong or stupid. Wanna try again?

MILO GEORGE: [Robert]You seem to have some sort of personal investment in comicon's messboard, the gutters in particular. You don't post here much lately, and when you do, it's mostly to defend that messboard.

"I'm not flying over to comicon to slam tcj(which a goodly number of people have), now am I?"
I don't know. I only read a few of the RICK/Sam gutter threads after their Itchy & Scratchy shenanigans showed on some of the serious discussion threads. While I was in the gutters [just before I posted my little proposal], I counted [in amazement] how many posts were on the RICK/Sam threads, and counting just the ones that filled a full screen came out to 300+. What Comicon threads feature slamming/griping about this messboard?

Not that anyone cares, but I enter Comicon via the search page, where I search for new posts on certain subjects/titles and for new posts from certain people.

"In fact, I've spent a fair amount of time at comicon defending the print version of TCJ."
I know. You do a pretty good job, most of the time.

By "five man gangbang... centered on RICK and Samuel Catalino," I meant the charming little hazing you and a couple others [I don't remember their names, and it's not important enough to me to go look them up] are giving RICK for all the crap he's pulled there lately. You've used up a lot of time and energy to post a lot [got to be pushing triple digits] about a couple of total strangers' postings to a messboard you have no professional connection with- unless you're a silent partner in Comicon, which, as unlikely as it sounds, would explain a lot.

"And by the way Milos: I was posting here long before the purge (or Spurge, as it were)."
I know. What's your point? Incidentally, that whole misspelling my name thing? Classic. You are truly an avatar of Internet rhetoric.

"I guess this is where he came to get his revenge?"
Why would I want revenge for someone correcting my boneheaded homophone [not a spelling] error? I don't mind being corrected when I'm wrong about something.
Robert, it's hard to take your insult attempts personally, since they come from someone with the hubris to [even jokingly] dub himself "The Most Hated Man in Comics." There's no way to tell if you're sincere or if this is just part of your pose. Sorry.

Since is as good a place to write this as any: In the long tradition of "it takes one to know one," Robert has been the only poster I know of that has pointedly remarked how inappropriate the "Does Dan Clowes like Xena" thread was. I agree. That was half of the reason why I stopped posting to it, with a bunch of really creepy e-mails I received from lurkers being the other half [it's also why I turned off my e-mail button for a couple of weeks].

Let the search for grammer[sic] and spellling[sic] errors in this post begin.

ROBERT YOUNG: I've corrected someone's spelling or "grammer" on the occasions they've called into question another's "intellegence" or "ignornace." At which point I think it's fair game.

Similarly, I've been quick to point out to a few of the "ignornant" that Gary Groth's typos are just that...typos. He posts in a rush and obviously knows how to spell words like "mode."

Milo, I didn't say that the "Clowes/Xena" thread was "inappropriate." I simply found it annoying that many of the people there were crowing about how much smarter they were than the rubes over at comicon, when the level of discussion on that thread was in fact idiotic. I thought that maybe someone should toss a rock into a glass house far more palatial than my own.

Kim wrote: "Actually, every single thing you said in your two posts on this thread was either wrong or stupid. Wanna try again?"

Sure I do.
Well, since nothing I've written here is "wrong" it's good you left yourself an out, with the subjective "stupid."

Thanks anyway, for the "fatuous" and "obnoxious" cheapshots (like the Journal built it's rep on congenial responses to it's attackers?) Wanna try again?

[The endlessly eloquent] Dan Holloway wrote: Robert Young is a prick. Remember, I have spelled everything here correctly, hence this opinion comes from the smartest man alive.

MILO GEORGE: Finally, Robert, the idea that you really are a silent partner in comicon gets less and less ridiculous every time you post about that board. Let me guess: you own the Gutters part of the comicon.com site, and you're afraid any slur on that forum's good name will hurt your chances for future advertising revenue. I've rarely seen someone so agitated over a discussion about something that doesn't directly involve him.

ROBERT YOUNG: I should have said I've never pointedly corrected someone's spelling or grammar except to defend myself. I'm hardly a grammarian (as Kim has kindly noted) but when someone calls me "ignornant", or writes "Ignornace is bliss and you are the happiest aroung"; it seems fair enough that I be allowed to point out the obvious error of their ways.

Milo wrote: "[And how/why would one question another's ignorance?]"

You're right! Why would anyone "question" someone else's ignorance? Except of course to ask, "are you really that ignorant?"

Now back to the issue of pointed corrections. Kim has a short memory so let me be of some assistance--

Kim wrote (in The Gutters): "Amusingly, Sam Catalino misspelled the word "misspell," further derailing the idea that we're dealing with a bunch of Rhodes scholars here."

Sam's response: "As far as not spelling correctly, this is not an English class and you are not my teacher." (which sounds amusingly similar to the responses I've gotten)

Oh and there's this gem of a homophonic mistake:
Sam C: "You [Kim] would deprive others of their write to the board. You sir, are an idiot, a cretin, and a repressive sort of individual." [responding to the Hellman incident perhaps?]

Kim: "But at least I know the difference between "write" and "right."
[and presumably "threw" and "through"?]

And apparently Kim also forgot his own amusing Gutter thread (which had nothing to do with the gun debate): "MarcDeering/Fanboy99 Subtext Becomes Clear."

I'm guessing Dan Holloway will now stop by to call Kim a "prick," right? Or...erm, maybe not (double standards being what they are and stuff).

"Richard Packard" wrote:
"If you really want to read some funny writing from other comics nerds, go read the "Gutters" forum... No prentious mealy mouthed "Krazy Kat" artsy-fartsy babbling from the TCJ turdburgler. He knows enough to stay out of the gutters. They'd kick his sorry ass. Easy. And their posts make sense."

Well Dan Holloway's artsy-fartsy thread "It's A Good Life If You Don't Drink The Water" continues to languish in The Gutters without a single response (damned nitwits); but admittedly there is no mention of Krazy Kat. It does open with the following intellectualism: "Well I have diarrhea of the brain today, so I figured, what better way to kill some time than in the gutters?"

That explains the post-nasal drip, huh Dan?

Milo wrote: "The only really negative comments came from Tadzio, [in his one and only post to the thread] who wrote:
'...I've been spending alot of time over at the gutters section of Comicon, I wouldn't suggest it unless you REALLY need a self-confidence booster. The Gutters has a good mix of really dumb and sorta smart people (or at least, thats how they represent themselves). Most of their posts don't "make sense," which is why its so fun to sit there and read all that nonsense!'

Milo wrote: "I'd really like to find someone who would disagree with this assessment. Do you disagree with the above, Robert?"

Well since Tadzio has popped up there on a number of occasions, I'm curious as to which group he includes himself in? The "really dumb" or "sorta smart" people. And I'd take issue with "sorta smart" which sounds suspiciously backhanded. Especially since Kim, edwyn, Buck Futter, Tak Toyoshima, Rick Bradford, Jesse Fuchs and a number of others all seem genuinely smart.

Milo wrote; "Finally, Robert, the idea that you really are a silent partner in comicon gets less and less ridiculous every time you post about that board. Let me guess: you own the Gutters part of the comicon.com site, and you're afraid any slur on that forum's good name will hurt your chances for future advertising revenue. I've rarely seen someone so agitated over a discussion about something that doesn't directly involve him."

This dopey angle apparently amuses you to no end. But since you seem willfully thick on the matter, let me explain once more. My posts here have not been so much (not at all, really) in defense of Comicon--where do I compliment the design of that site?-- as they've simply pointed out how ridiculous it is that the same people bitching about it here, often post there (without so much as a peep about the site's "garishness" and "inanity").

And the fact that this thread was originated HERE (where a giggly "gangbang" of snide remarks is assured) rather than THERE, where the hammer would inevitably come down on Holloway, MtMiller, etc. (and possibly someone who could improve upon the site--Veitch? Conley?--would respond or at least take note). How unreasonable is that, Milo?

Is it valid to talk about comicon (or any other comics-related website) here? Sure it is. But why not duplicate the thread over there as well, if your intent is really something constructive?

Ok boys...just admit you were being big, fat hypocrites and apologize for attacking me, and we can call it a day. It's not that hard to admit you were wrong, is it?

[more to come]


[This message has been edited by Robert (edited 07-27-99).]
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#281184 - 07/26/99 06:48 PM Re: "Comicon.com and a poor use of aggressive colors" revisited
Robert Offline
Member

Registered: 02/23/99
Posts: 851
Loc: The belly of the beast
TIMOTHY MTPANIC MILLER:Tim MtPanic Miller: Robert,
The best defense for being an asshole that you can offer is to attack people on spelling errors rather than address the content of their messages? Don't hold your breath for any apologies, especially since nobody attacked YOU in the first place. They may have had a few words to say about the Comicon board, and you chose to take that personally for some reason. Rick and Steve are perfectly capable of defending themselves should they feel the need.

KIM THOMPSON:
Robert:
(1) You're an idiot and a jerk.
(2) Everyone on this board thinks you're an idiot and a jerk.
(3) Yet you still persist in arguing.
(4) What are you, some sort of masochist?
Although I probably can't shut Robert up, I would humbly request that after he posts his next long, fatuous self-defense, everyone just ignore it and let the thread sink into oblivion. Thank you.

Speaking of idiots melting down, the Comicon Gutters had a great moment over the weekend when the notorious RICK Olney posted a racist anti-Native-American diatribe and got so much shit for it he deleted it -- but not before quick-thinking Buck Futter grabbed it re-posted it on a new thread, where RICK can't get at it. Since RICK has now physically threatened other posters, posted under a variety of pseudonyms (often to back up his own arguments) and lied about it until he got caught, appears to have created a new identity for himself as a (suspiciously semi-illiterate) lawyer who's threatening to sue the people he's arguing with for "slander," and now lapsed into racist rants, he's starting to make our own little Danny Hellman look like a piker.

And those Comicon.com guys used to be so smug about our Hellman problems.

TIMOTHY MTPANIC MILLER: Kim, ignoring future Robert Young posts was exactly what I had planned on doing. I have long since abandoned the Gutters in favor of a simpler, happier life, but I could go for a dose of watching Rick get his just desserts.

ROBERT YOUNG: "MtMiller: My initial post attacked NO ONE. Read it! Immediately thereafter Milo chimed in, and ultimately Kim Thompson arrived with his sling full of insults (all just for me, of course)."

Kim,
1) Funny how you can call me an idiot and a jerk (and "wrong," "obnoxious", and "fatuous") without responding to a SINGLE point I made in my previous posts.

2)Did you take a poll? (of course no one could be honest now that The Master has given his Prime Directive)

3)Yeah, it's crazy to attempt to defend myself in the face of witless namecalling from people unable, or unwilling to address a viewpoint contrary to their own.

4) Am I a "masochist?" Apparently so. But at least I'm right and you're wrong.

In fact, the best you can do is order your flock to "ignore" me.

Oh yeah but you've got to love how Kim authoritatively stated: "I've kept myself well out of the idiotic Gutter "gangbangs" for many weeks now -- I participated only when it was the gun debate, which was genuinely interesting."

But just 11-posts later Kim was gleefully recounting this anecdote:

Kim: "the Comicon Gutters had a great moment over the weekend when the notorious RICK Olney posted a racist anti-Native-American diatribe and got so much shit for it he deleted it -- but not before quick-thinking Buck Futter grabbed it re-posted it on a new thread, where RICK can't get at it. Since RICK has now physically threatened other posters, posted under a variety of pseudonyms (often to back up his own arguments) and lied about it until he got caught, appears to have created a new identity for himself as a (suspiciously semi-illiterate) lawyer who's threatening to sue the people he's arguing with for "slander," and now lapsed into racist rants, he's starting to make our own little Danny Hellman look like a piker."

It's cool (and funny) when other people point out Rick Olney's "racism" and duplicity. But when I do it, Milo and Kim characterize my involvement as an "idiotic gangbang". And of course if I had been the one to copy Olney's thread I would have been called "obsessive compulsive" or a "jerk" or somethingorother. Anything but "quick-thinking."

Want to see hypocrisy? Take a look in the mirror guys.

The reason you won't answer this is because you can't.

[Editor's note: It seems to be a pattern that every time I've had even a mild disagreement with Kim, he inevitably erupts like a volcano. I alone (not the racists or gun-nuts etc) seem to evince a reaction from Kim so completely out of proportion to the disagreement that spawned it, that it's almost comical...almost]

[Editor's note: By all means, please ignore everything I've written here. You wouldn't want to be ostracized by your fellow gangbangers would you? And besides it's just so much easier that way]

But Milo, if you have any ammo left...


[This message has been edited by Robert (edited 07-27-99).]
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#281185 - 07/26/99 08:04 PM Re: "Comicon.com and a poor use of aggressive colors" revisited
Kim Thompson Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 0
I apologize to Comicon.com members for Robert's decision to expose them to the excruciating tedium of these exchanges, most of which are concerned with telling Robert to quit being such an annoying whiner (unsuccessfully, so far).

I like both messboards and certainly don't condone any attempt to start some sort of weird slugfest between the participants of either. Although maybe we can have some sort of bipartisan agreement that Robert's a neurotic nut.

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#281186 - 07/26/99 08:40 PM Re: "Comicon.com and a poor use of aggressive colors" revisited
RICK Offline
Member

Registered: 05/03/99
Posts: 1805
Loc: Whitesboro, New York, USA
All I want to know is...
When do you jokers start paying me for the reprint rights!?
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Organized Readers of Comics Associated
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#281187 - 07/26/99 08:41 PM Re: "Comicon.com and a poor use of aggressive colors" revisited
Robert Offline
Member

Registered: 02/23/99
Posts: 851
Loc: The belly of the beast
Nice try Kim. Typically jaundiced POV. Now hop back over to TCJ to get your daily spanking.
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#281188 - 07/26/99 10:52 PM Re: "Comicon.com and a poor use of aggressive colors" revisited
Dan Holloway Offline
Member

Registered: 06/03/99
Posts: 96
Loc: Tampa/Tallahassee FL
Robert I don't know whether to curse you or thank you. Your decision to post this endless mass of selections from the TCJ thread has most likely killed this thread for all effective purposes. That's not my problem. I simply wanted to make the thread known to the people at comicon who may not frequent the TCJ board so no that one can claim to be slighted (however ridiculous such a claim may be; as far as I'm concerned these are all public message boards. The only reasonable argument is that such comments should be directed towards the directors of comicon. Rick Veitch was made aware of them weeks ago and didn't seem to care one iota). You decided you were going to make a point, and ended up shooting yourself in the foot. I really can't imagine anyone taking the time to read through those posts in the manner you've displayed them here. The link would have been more than sufficient, and would have provided a more jurisprudent representation of what was said.

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#281189 - 07/26/99 10:56 PM Re: "Comicon.com and a poor use of aggressive colors" revisited
Dan Holloway Offline
Member

Registered: 06/03/99
Posts: 96
Loc: Tampa/Tallahassee FL
P.S.
Robert, the selections you chose present the most biased representation of that thread I can imagine. I'm not saying that they're inaccurate, but it's basically the equivalent of selecting a handful of verses from the Bible to create arguments for racism, sexual intolerance, etc.

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#281190 - 07/26/99 11:20 PM Re: "Comicon.com and a poor use of aggressive colors" revisited
RICK Offline
Member

Registered: 05/03/99
Posts: 1805
Loc: Whitesboro, New York, USA
I'd kindly like to ask you to address you attention to my response on the "NAZIS, RACISTS, and KLANSMEN, OH MY!" thread in the gutters. I've been instructed to make that announcement and simply would like to know that you all read it.

It seems that now, I might be including TCJ in my efforts to clear the matter. Wow, Wizard and the CBG are going to love reading this copy!

Wish all you guys luck on your end!



------------------
Rick Olney
It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance.
--Thomas Sowell, Creators Syndicate







[This message has been edited by RICK (edited 07-26-99).]
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