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#281181 - 07/26/99 05:28 PM "Comicon.com and a poor use of aggressive colors" revisited
Dan Holloway Offline
Member

Registered: 06/03/99
Posts: 96
Loc: Tampa/Tallahassee FL
After much debate both at the TCJ message board and within the "Timespell#4" thread here at comicon, I have decided to make the thread and comments in question known to those here at comicon who may not be aware of them. I would repost the entire thread here, but the amount of space that would take up within one post would be ludicrous, and no one would read it in that form anyway.

http://www.tcj.com/messboard/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000048.html

I urge every comicon.com board regular to read the thread at the URL provided AND THEN REPLY ON THIS THREAD AT COMICON if you should feel moved to do. Please keep your replies here if for no other reason than to keep the already somewhat large TCJ thread from becoming unweildly. Also, please read the whole thing before responding. Half assed comments will be ignored.

[This message has been edited by Dan Holloway (edited 07-26-99).]

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#281182 - 07/26/99 06:20 PM Re: "Comicon.com and a poor use of aggressive colors" revisited
Robert Offline
Member

Registered: 02/23/99
Posts: 851
Loc: The belly of the beast
www.tcj.com/messboard/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000048.html

Well I see Dan Holloway beat me to the punch (if just barely) in posting this topic here. Of course I had a far more engaging title but I'll defer to Holloway's original.

But instead of readers having to bounce back and forth between Comicon and tcj.com, I've decided to copy a healthy selection of the posts here for your reading pleasure. The posts haven't been edited to generate any sort of bias. I think they speak for themselves...



DAN HOLLOWAY [40-plus Comicon posts]:
"Is it me, or do the cluttered layout, faceless humanoid graphics and gross overabundance of the color red give you that real life spine chilling shock of horror that you get everytime you walk into a really bad comic shop? Is this the look they're going for? I suppose it is a convention on the web, so they have already succeded in that "may induce nausiea in anyone not wearing a two sizes too small Teen Titans T-shirt" qualification. But please, someone tell my why on god's green earth red is the dominant color! They could still make me sick without instilling me with those primal images of fear, blood, and hate every time I look at the screen!

JAVAGIRL [30-plus comicon posts]: Dearest Dan,I agree! Their Messboard is an eyesore!


TIMOTHY MTPANIC MILLER[30-plus comicon posts]: It doesn't help that they're flashing banners at the top of the site frame AND on each bulletin board page. I've seen that "Red Planet Pioneer, Mars is PULSATING" ad so many times I'm wondering if the thing is printed on paper or recycled foreskins with all the pulsating it's apparently doing. Never mind aggressive colors though, it's just plain an aggressive CROWD. I go on there to talk about COMICS and I find myself wanting to beat some idiot asshole (more) senseless. Thank God for the Journal high road.

DAN HOLLOWAY: Bookmark the Comicon bulletin board?!! What if a friend were to use my computer, casually browse through my bookmarks, and find that I actually visit such a sight? I like to keep my bookmarks file relegated only to websites specifically devoted to midget pornography and Rugrats fan pages. Standards! Standards!

DAN HOLLOWAY: Damn right! And if I can't view the Comicon board when I'm supposed to be working, I'm just plain not going to view it! There's not a damn thing there worth wasting free time on.

KARON FLAGE [aka The Voice of Reason]:
Don't suppose it occurred to any of y'all to email Steve and Rick with your feedback? They do like to know what people think of the interface.
Personally, I think coming over here to complain about comicon's interface is as useful as going over there to complain about this board's posting restrictions

ROBERT YOUNG: Ironic that most of the people bitching here about Comicon spend as much time there as they do here. Also ironic that the most substantial debate going on either board is currently raging between Gary Groth and Rick Veitch at (guess where?) Comicon! Oh and note to the colorblind: See The Comics Journal logo at the top of the page. Half of it is ~gasp~ RED! Horrible isn't it?

MILO GEORGE [50-Plus Comicon posts]:
Robert Young took a break from cataloging the wit and wisdom of funnybook autistic savant Samuel Catalino to write:
"Ironic that most of the people bitching here about Comicon spend as much time there as they do here."
Sort of like how more than a few of your recent postings on this board are solely to defend the Comicon board?
"Also ironic that the most substantial debate going on either board is currently raging between Gary Groth and Rick Veitch at (guess where?) Comicon!"
Where you can also read the comics-related and oh-so-intelligent 300+ post five man gangbang [Robert being one of them] centered on RICK and Samuel Catalino. Even the most spirited of discussions about Danny Hellman's cyber-graffiti have never cracked triple digits.
Spindoctor, heal thyself.

TIMOTHY MTPANIC MILLER: It's very simple, Comicon, when it doesn't devolve into fanboy apologism and childish nose-thumbing, has a broader view, and serves it's purpose. The Journal board is where I go when I want intelligent conversation, and sometimes, I even get it!

[more to come]



[This message has been edited by Robert (edited 07-26-99).]
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#281183 - 07/26/99 06:38 PM Re: "Comicon.com and a poor use of aggressive colors" revisited
Robert Offline
Member

Registered: 02/23/99
Posts: 851
Loc: The belly of the beast
ROBERT YOUNG: Well Milo again leaps to the head of the line of the Hypocrite Club.

Milos wrote: "Sort of like how more than a few of your recent postings on this board are solely to defend the Comicon board?"

Uh, yeah where's the correlation dimbulb?

I'm not flying over to comicon to slam tcj(which a goodly number of people have), now am I? In fact, I've spent a fair amount of time at comicon defending the print version of TCJ. Perhaps you'd know that if you actually did something other than lurk in the gutters counting the number of posts.

And since you're so readily lumping me in with the likes of RICK and Catalino, why not include Kim Thompson in our little "gangbang?" He's certainly had his share of words for all of the participants you mention
And why not lump yourself in with Danny Hellman while you're at it? Surely you two have exchanged words about his "cyber-graffiti?" But I guess that wouldn't be convenient to your snotty little argument, would it?

My point was this: I've seen several of the names on this thread attached to multiple posts at Comicon. Yet the same people sneek over here for their little rants (as if anyone over here can do anything about the layout on another site). So why not post your complaints where the people who can do something about them will actually read them?
And by the way Milos: I was posting here long before the purge (or Spurge, as it were).

[on a simular note: I made the mistake of jokingly correcting Milos on his misuse of the word "threw" in one of his many oh-so-witty posts at, you guessed it, comicon. I guess this is where he came to get his revenge?

KIM THOMPSON [366! comicon posts]:
Robert: Quit being fatuous and obnoxious. (Okay, that's a tall order: Quit being fatuous and obnoxious on this board, then.)
Making fun of someone for misspelling "intelligent" and then, THREE words later, coughing up "simular" gives you the glass-house-of-the-week award, no contest.
And as I'm sure you must know, I've kept myself well out of the idiotic Gutter "gangbangs" for many weeks now -- I participated only when it was the gun debate, which was genuinely interesting.
Actually, every single thing you said in your two posts on this thread was either wrong or stupid. Wanna try again?

MILO GEORGE: [Robert]You seem to have some sort of personal investment in comicon's messboard, the gutters in particular. You don't post here much lately, and when you do, it's mostly to defend that messboard.

"I'm not flying over to comicon to slam tcj(which a goodly number of people have), now am I?"
I don't know. I only read a few of the RICK/Sam gutter threads after their Itchy & Scratchy shenanigans showed on some of the serious discussion threads. While I was in the gutters [just before I posted my little proposal], I counted [in amazement] how many posts were on the RICK/Sam threads, and counting just the ones that filled a full screen came out to 300+. What Comicon threads feature slamming/griping about this messboard?

Not that anyone cares, but I enter Comicon via the search page, where I search for new posts on certain subjects/titles and for new posts from certain people.

"In fact, I've spent a fair amount of time at comicon defending the print version of TCJ."
I know. You do a pretty good job, most of the time.

By "five man gangbang... centered on RICK and Samuel Catalino," I meant the charming little hazing you and a couple others [I don't remember their names, and it's not important enough to me to go look them up] are giving RICK for all the crap he's pulled there lately. You've used up a lot of time and energy to post a lot [got to be pushing triple digits] about a couple of total strangers' postings to a messboard you have no professional connection with- unless you're a silent partner in Comicon, which, as unlikely as it sounds, would explain a lot.

"And by the way Milos: I was posting here long before the purge (or Spurge, as it were)."
I know. What's your point? Incidentally, that whole misspelling my name thing? Classic. You are truly an avatar of Internet rhetoric.

"I guess this is where he came to get his revenge?"
Why would I want revenge for someone correcting my boneheaded homophone [not a spelling] error? I don't mind being corrected when I'm wrong about something.
Robert, it's hard to take your insult attempts personally, since they come from someone with the hubris to [even jokingly] dub himself "The Most Hated Man in Comics." There's no way to tell if you're sincere or if this is just part of your pose. Sorry.

Since is as good a place to write this as any: In the long tradition of "it takes one to know one," Robert has been the only poster I know of that has pointedly remarked how inappropriate the "Does Dan Clowes like Xena" thread was. I agree. That was half of the reason why I stopped posting to it, with a bunch of really creepy e-mails I received from lurkers being the other half [it's also why I turned off my e-mail button for a couple of weeks].

Let the search for grammer[sic] and spellling[sic] errors in this post begin.

ROBERT YOUNG: I've corrected someone's spelling or "grammer" on the occasions they've called into question another's "intellegence" or "ignornace." At which point I think it's fair game.

Similarly, I've been quick to point out to a few of the "ignornant" that Gary Groth's typos are just that...typos. He posts in a rush and obviously knows how to spell words like "mode."

Milo, I didn't say that the "Clowes/Xena" thread was "inappropriate." I simply found it annoying that many of the people there were crowing about how much smarter they were than the rubes over at comicon, when the level of discussion on that thread was in fact idiotic. I thought that maybe someone should toss a rock into a glass house far more palatial than my own.

Kim wrote: "Actually, every single thing you said in your two posts on this thread was either wrong or stupid. Wanna try again?"

Sure I do.
Well, since nothing I've written here is "wrong" it's good you left yourself an out, with the subjective "stupid."

Thanks anyway, for the "fatuous" and "obnoxious" cheapshots (like the Journal built it's rep on congenial responses to it's attackers?) Wanna try again?

[The endlessly eloquent] Dan Holloway wrote: Robert Young is a prick. Remember, I have spelled everything here correctly, hence this opinion comes from the smartest man alive.

MILO GEORGE: Finally, Robert, the idea that you really are a silent partner in comicon gets less and less ridiculous every time you post about that board. Let me guess: you own the Gutters part of the comicon.com site, and you're afraid any slur on that forum's good name will hurt your chances for future advertising revenue. I've rarely seen someone so agitated over a discussion about something that doesn't directly involve him.

ROBERT YOUNG: I should have said I've never pointedly corrected someone's spelling or grammar except to defend myself. I'm hardly a grammarian (as Kim has kindly noted) but when someone calls me "ignornant", or writes "Ignornace is bliss and you are the happiest aroung"; it seems fair enough that I be allowed to point out the obvious error of their ways.

Milo wrote: "[And how/why would one question another's ignorance?]"

You're right! Why would anyone "question" someone else's ignorance? Except of course to ask, "are you really that ignorant?"

Now back to the issue of pointed corrections. Kim has a short memory so let me be of some assistance--

Kim wrote (in The Gutters): "Amusingly, Sam Catalino misspelled the word "misspell," further derailing the idea that we're dealing with a bunch of Rhodes scholars here."

Sam's response: "As far as not spelling correctly, this is not an English class and you are not my teacher." (which sounds amusingly similar to the responses I've gotten)

Oh and there's this gem of a homophonic mistake:
Sam C: "You [Kim] would deprive others of their write to the board. You sir, are an idiot, a cretin, and a repressive sort of individual." [responding to the Hellman incident perhaps?]

Kim: "But at least I know the difference between "write" and "right."
[and presumably "threw" and "through"?]

And apparently Kim also forgot his own amusing Gutter thread (which had nothing to do with the gun debate): "MarcDeering/Fanboy99 Subtext Becomes Clear."

I'm guessing Dan Holloway will now stop by to call Kim a "prick," right? Or...erm, maybe not (double standards being what they are and stuff).

"Richard Packard" wrote:
"If you really want to read some funny writing from other comics nerds, go read the "Gutters" forum... No prentious mealy mouthed "Krazy Kat" artsy-fartsy babbling from the TCJ turdburgler. He knows enough to stay out of the gutters. They'd kick his sorry ass. Easy. And their posts make sense."

Well Dan Holloway's artsy-fartsy thread "It's A Good Life If You Don't Drink The Water" continues to languish in The Gutters without a single response (damned nitwits); but admittedly there is no mention of Krazy Kat. It does open with the following intellectualism: "Well I have diarrhea of the brain today, so I figured, what better way to kill some time than in the gutters?"

That explains the post-nasal drip, huh Dan?

Milo wrote: "The only really negative comments came from Tadzio, [in his one and only post to the thread] who wrote:
'...I've been spending alot of time over at the gutters section of Comicon, I wouldn't suggest it unless you REALLY need a self-confidence booster. The Gutters has a good mix of really dumb and sorta smart people (or at least, thats how they represent themselves). Most of their posts don't "make sense," which is why its so fun to sit there and read all that nonsense!'

Milo wrote: "I'd really like to find someone who would disagree with this assessment. Do you disagree with the above, Robert?"

Well since Tadzio has popped up there on a number of occasions, I'm curious as to which group he includes himself in? The "really dumb" or "sorta smart" people. And I'd take issue with "sorta smart" which sounds suspiciously backhanded. Especially since Kim, edwyn, Buck Futter, Tak Toyoshima, Rick Bradford, Jesse Fuchs and a number of others all seem genuinely smart.

Milo wrote; "Finally, Robert, the idea that you really are a silent partner in comicon gets less and less ridiculous every time you post about that board. Let me guess: you own the Gutters part of the comicon.com site, and you're afraid any slur on that forum's good name will hurt your chances for future advertising revenue. I've rarely seen someone so agitated over a discussion about something that doesn't directly involve him."

This dopey angle apparently amuses you to no end. But since you seem willfully thick on the matter, let me explain once more. My posts here have not been so much (not at all, really) in defense of Comicon--where do I compliment the design of that site?-- as they've simply pointed out how ridiculous it is that the same people bitching about it here, often post there (without so much as a peep about the site's "garishness" and "inanity").

And the fact that this thread was originated HERE (where a giggly "gangbang" of snide remarks is assured) rather than THERE, where the hammer would inevitably come down on Holloway, MtMiller, etc. (and possibly someone who could improve upon the site--Veitch? Conley?--would respond or at least take note). How unreasonable is that, Milo?

Is it valid to talk about comicon (or any other comics-related website) here? Sure it is. But why not duplicate the thread over there as well, if your intent is really something constructive?

Ok boys...just admit you were being big, fat hypocrites and apologize for attacking me, and we can call it a day. It's not that hard to admit you were wrong, is it?

[more to come]


[This message has been edited by Robert (edited 07-27-99).]
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#281184 - 07/26/99 06:48 PM Re: "Comicon.com and a poor use of aggressive colors" revisited
Robert Offline
Member

Registered: 02/23/99
Posts: 851
Loc: The belly of the beast
TIMOTHY MTPANIC MILLER:Tim MtPanic Miller: Robert,
The best defense for being an asshole that you can offer is to attack people on spelling errors rather than address the content of their messages? Don't hold your breath for any apologies, especially since nobody attacked YOU in the first place. They may have had a few words to say about the Comicon board, and you chose to take that personally for some reason. Rick and Steve are perfectly capable of defending themselves should they feel the need.

KIM THOMPSON:
Robert:
(1) You're an idiot and a jerk.
(2) Everyone on this board thinks you're an idiot and a jerk.
(3) Yet you still persist in arguing.
(4) What are you, some sort of masochist?
Although I probably can't shut Robert up, I would humbly request that after he posts his next long, fatuous self-defense, everyone just ignore it and let the thread sink into oblivion. Thank you.

Speaking of idiots melting down, the Comicon Gutters had a great moment over the weekend when the notorious RICK Olney posted a racist anti-Native-American diatribe and got so much shit for it he deleted it -- but not before quick-thinking Buck Futter grabbed it re-posted it on a new thread, where RICK can't get at it. Since RICK has now physically threatened other posters, posted under a variety of pseudonyms (often to back up his own arguments) and lied about it until he got caught, appears to have created a new identity for himself as a (suspiciously semi-illiterate) lawyer who's threatening to sue the people he's arguing with for "slander," and now lapsed into racist rants, he's starting to make our own little Danny Hellman look like a piker.

And those Comicon.com guys used to be so smug about our Hellman problems.

TIMOTHY MTPANIC MILLER: Kim, ignoring future Robert Young posts was exactly what I had planned on doing. I have long since abandoned the Gutters in favor of a simpler, happier life, but I could go for a dose of watching Rick get his just desserts.

ROBERT YOUNG: "MtMiller: My initial post attacked NO ONE. Read it! Immediately thereafter Milo chimed in, and ultimately Kim Thompson arrived with his sling full of insults (all just for me, of course)."

Kim,
1) Funny how you can call me an idiot and a jerk (and "wrong," "obnoxious", and "fatuous") without responding to a SINGLE point I made in my previous posts.

2)Did you take a poll? (of course no one could be honest now that The Master has given his Prime Directive)

3)Yeah, it's crazy to attempt to defend myself in the face of witless namecalling from people unable, or unwilling to address a viewpoint contrary to their own.

4) Am I a "masochist?" Apparently so. But at least I'm right and you're wrong.

In fact, the best you can do is order your flock to "ignore" me.

Oh yeah but you've got to love how Kim authoritatively stated: "I've kept myself well out of the idiotic Gutter "gangbangs" for many weeks now -- I participated only when it was the gun debate, which was genuinely interesting."

But just 11-posts later Kim was gleefully recounting this anecdote:

Kim: "the Comicon Gutters had a great moment over the weekend when the notorious RICK Olney posted a racist anti-Native-American diatribe and got so much shit for it he deleted it -- but not before quick-thinking Buck Futter grabbed it re-posted it on a new thread, where RICK can't get at it. Since RICK has now physically threatened other posters, posted under a variety of pseudonyms (often to back up his own arguments) and lied about it until he got caught, appears to have created a new identity for himself as a (suspiciously semi-illiterate) lawyer who's threatening to sue the people he's arguing with for "slander," and now lapsed into racist rants, he's starting to make our own little Danny Hellman look like a piker."

It's cool (and funny) when other people point out Rick Olney's "racism" and duplicity. But when I do it, Milo and Kim characterize my involvement as an "idiotic gangbang". And of course if I had been the one to copy Olney's thread I would have been called "obsessive compulsive" or a "jerk" or somethingorother. Anything but "quick-thinking."

Want to see hypocrisy? Take a look in the mirror guys.

The reason you won't answer this is because you can't.

[Editor's note: It seems to be a pattern that every time I've had even a mild disagreement with Kim, he inevitably erupts like a volcano. I alone (not the racists or gun-nuts etc) seem to evince a reaction from Kim so completely out of proportion to the disagreement that spawned it, that it's almost comical...almost]

[Editor's note: By all means, please ignore everything I've written here. You wouldn't want to be ostracized by your fellow gangbangers would you? And besides it's just so much easier that way]

But Milo, if you have any ammo left...


[This message has been edited by Robert (edited 07-27-99).]
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#281185 - 07/26/99 08:04 PM Re: "Comicon.com and a poor use of aggressive colors" revisited
Kim Thompson Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 0
I apologize to Comicon.com members for Robert's decision to expose them to the excruciating tedium of these exchanges, most of which are concerned with telling Robert to quit being such an annoying whiner (unsuccessfully, so far).

I like both messboards and certainly don't condone any attempt to start some sort of weird slugfest between the participants of either. Although maybe we can have some sort of bipartisan agreement that Robert's a neurotic nut.

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#281186 - 07/26/99 08:40 PM Re: "Comicon.com and a poor use of aggressive colors" revisited
RICK Offline
Member

Registered: 05/03/99
Posts: 1805
Loc: Whitesboro, New York, USA
All I want to know is...
When do you jokers start paying me for the reprint rights!?
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Rick Olney
Organized Readers of Comics Associated
http://www.ORCAfresh.net
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#281187 - 07/26/99 08:41 PM Re: "Comicon.com and a poor use of aggressive colors" revisited
Robert Offline
Member

Registered: 02/23/99
Posts: 851
Loc: The belly of the beast
Nice try Kim. Typically jaundiced POV. Now hop back over to TCJ to get your daily spanking.
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#281188 - 07/26/99 10:52 PM Re: "Comicon.com and a poor use of aggressive colors" revisited
Dan Holloway Offline
Member

Registered: 06/03/99
Posts: 96
Loc: Tampa/Tallahassee FL
Robert I don't know whether to curse you or thank you. Your decision to post this endless mass of selections from the TCJ thread has most likely killed this thread for all effective purposes. That's not my problem. I simply wanted to make the thread known to the people at comicon who may not frequent the TCJ board so no that one can claim to be slighted (however ridiculous such a claim may be; as far as I'm concerned these are all public message boards. The only reasonable argument is that such comments should be directed towards the directors of comicon. Rick Veitch was made aware of them weeks ago and didn't seem to care one iota). You decided you were going to make a point, and ended up shooting yourself in the foot. I really can't imagine anyone taking the time to read through those posts in the manner you've displayed them here. The link would have been more than sufficient, and would have provided a more jurisprudent representation of what was said.

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#281189 - 07/26/99 10:56 PM Re: "Comicon.com and a poor use of aggressive colors" revisited
Dan Holloway Offline
Member

Registered: 06/03/99
Posts: 96
Loc: Tampa/Tallahassee FL
P.S.
Robert, the selections you chose present the most biased representation of that thread I can imagine. I'm not saying that they're inaccurate, but it's basically the equivalent of selecting a handful of verses from the Bible to create arguments for racism, sexual intolerance, etc.

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#281190 - 07/26/99 11:20 PM Re: "Comicon.com and a poor use of aggressive colors" revisited
RICK Offline
Member

Registered: 05/03/99
Posts: 1805
Loc: Whitesboro, New York, USA
I'd kindly like to ask you to address you attention to my response on the "NAZIS, RACISTS, and KLANSMEN, OH MY!" thread in the gutters. I've been instructed to make that announcement and simply would like to know that you all read it.

It seems that now, I might be including TCJ in my efforts to clear the matter. Wow, Wizard and the CBG are going to love reading this copy!

Wish all you guys luck on your end!



------------------
Rick Olney
It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance.
--Thomas Sowell, Creators Syndicate







[This message has been edited by RICK (edited 07-26-99).]
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Rick Olney
Organized Readers of Comics Associated
http://www.ORCAfresh.net
orca@eGroups.com

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#281191 - 07/26/99 11:51 PM Re: "Comicon.com and a poor use of aggressive colors" revisited
Dan Holloway Offline
Member

Registered: 06/03/99
Posts: 96
Loc: Tampa/Tallahassee FL
Comcion.com has officially stopped making any sense whatsoever.

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#281192 - 07/27/99 12:29 AM Re: "Comicon.com and a poor use of aggressive colors" revisited
Milo George Offline
Member

Registered: 05/19/99
Posts: 759
Loc: Seattle
I'd just like to let Herrs Veitch & Conley know my one and only complaint about Comicon.com is that Robert Young has appointed himself its spokesman.

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#281193 - 07/27/99 04:19 AM Re: "Comicon.com and a poor use of aggressive colors" revisited
Dan Holloway Offline
Member

Registered: 06/03/99
Posts: 96
Loc: Tampa/Tallahassee FL
Okay, I'm probably being unfair. Let me revise that to say that the gutters make no sense whatsoever, and the rest of the board suffers whenever Rick Olney escapes from them out into the smogless pastures of the other topic fields. I can't say I agree with Robert Young on much of anything, but at least he's not running around inventing lawyers and threatening to sue people.

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#281194 - 07/27/99 04:21 AM Re: "Comicon.com and a poor use of aggressive colors" revisited
buck futter Offline
Member

Registered: 05/08/99
Posts: 388
Loc: Central City
Sheathe those swords and take cover, gentlemen...RICK's on a litigious "warpath" and he's about to cut one...

------------------
"Serenity now!" ~ Frank Costanza
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"Greps no kapootie" ~ Wallace Wood (1927-1982)

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#281195 - 07/27/99 04:47 AM Re: "Comicon.com and a poor use of aggressive colors" revisited
Robert Offline
Member

Registered: 02/23/99
Posts: 851
Loc: The belly of the beast
Dan Holloway wrote: The link would have been more than sufficient, and would have provided a more jurisprudent representation of what was said.

Dan you nitwit, the "link" is still there. I even made a hyperlink for you.
http://www.tcj.com/messboard/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000048.html

Anyone doubting the jurisprudence of this thread...please see the original for yourselves.

Dan Holloway (again): "P.S.
Robert, the selections you chose present the most biased representation of that thread I can imagine. I'm not saying that they're inaccurate, but it's basically the equivalent of selecting a handful of verses from the Bible to create arguments for racism, sexual intolerance, etc."

Huh?? Dan, I know you view Kim as your prophet but this is ridiculous. You're over your head. Please give up. The only bias expressed is in your own words. I've reposted the thread in almost the exact order in which the comments were originally posted. I only left out things irrelevant to the argument.

Dan Holloway said: "I can't say I agree with Robert Young on much of anything, but at least he's not running around inventing lawyers and threatening to sue people. "

That's where you're dead wrong. I'm having my lawyer Jackie Childs review Kim's slanderous remarks against me at this very moment. I expect before the week is out I'll not only be calling the shots at TCJ (you're fired Milo!) but I'll also own all the Stewie merchandise in the Fantagraphics warehouse.
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#281196 - 07/27/99 06:36 AM Re: "Comicon.com and a poor use of aggressive colors" revisited
Dan Holloway Offline
Member

Registered: 06/03/99
Posts: 96
Loc: Tampa/Tallahassee FL
Robert, if everyone were to be judged by one single post, I'm sure it wouldn't be difficult to come up with some doozies for you. The posts you selcted to repost were the ones that make you look like Blind justice and everyone else look like uneducated nit-wits. You know damn well that isn't the case. I had other posts in that thread that explained my point of view and postion on the subjects discussed, but you chose to include only the earliest ones posted at a time where no one was doing anything on that thread but joking around. I syand by that original statement, as I do every statement I've made in that thread and any other, including one in the Timespell #4 thread here at comicon in which I maintained that the message board here is mostly a joke, while there are some very good things being done in other sections of the sight. The truth is however that nne of this matters, since no one other than the same people who were arguing at TCJ have decided to respond to this thread (Rick Olney's weird and completely off the subject ramblings about his ersonal problems being the only exception). Unless something unforeseen happens, it would appear that you're the only person in all of Fantasyland that really gives a damn about this subject.

I have a belly full of coffee, and it hurts like hell.

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#281197 - 07/27/99 08:26 AM Re: "Comicon.com and a poor use of aggressive colors" revisited
Rick Veitch Administrator Offline
Member

Registered: 11/23/98
Posts: 3531
Loc: Vermont, USA
A note to our beloved Comicon.com Village Idiots: Buck, Robert, and RICK. Please keep the Twit Olympic Competition down in the GUTTERS where you won't hurt yourselves with sharp observations.

Dan, are you aware that Comicon.com is in serious talks with the TCJ board about trading Sam Catalino's contract for yours? We're always interested in picking up minor league talent to add to our roster of Board Bitches.

BTW, the bright colors on our site were specifically designed for their irresistable hypnotic attraction to Comics Journal personel. As you can witness, they have been helpless to resist.

------------------
Rick Veitch
Invites You To Read THE DAILY RARE BIT FIENDS
updated every day along with news of the world's most popular artform!
THE COMICON.COM DAILY SPLASHis always refreshing!
www.comicon.com/splash
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#281198 - 07/27/99 08:40 AM Re: "Comicon.com and a poor use of aggressive colors" revisited
Dan Holloway Offline
Member

Registered: 06/03/99
Posts: 96
Loc: Tampa/Tallahassee FL
Rick, at the very least I'm worth Catalino, two Rick Olney aliases, and a bitch to be named later.

Basically, I express my distaste for the layout on your message board, and you decide to call me a bitch. What the hell, keeps with the overall tone of the board, right?

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#281199 - 07/27/99 09:27 AM Re: "Comicon.com and a poor use of aggressive colors" revisited
SgtCarter Offline
Member

Registered: 07/27/99
Posts: 56
All right, listen up! All of you idiotic twits who aren't hypocritical bitches, take one step forward now!

Not so fast there, Veitch...
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#281200 - 07/27/99 10:24 AM Re: "Comicon.com and a poor use of aggressive colors" revisited
Don Markstein Offline
Member

Registered: 11/24/98
Posts: 1202
Loc: Earth
I'd probably be a bipartisan poster, if there were room in my life for more than one swing per day through one discussion board the size of this one.

I do, tho, take an occasional look at the TCJ board, and of course, I dutifully went over to check out the thread in question.

After slogging through about a third of it, all I can say is, anybody participating in that stupid slugfest has no room to talk about the deficiencies of this board, whether or not they agree with the design decisions made by its administrators.

Is it possible for the guys with the God Software on this board to pick up a whole thread and move it to The Gutters? That's where this one ought to be.

Quack, Don

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#281201 - 07/27/99 02:34 PM Re: "Comicon.com and a poor use of aggressive colors" revisited
Robert Offline
Member

Registered: 02/23/99
Posts: 851
Loc: The belly of the beast
DAN HOLLOWAY [7-posts on this thread]: "The truth is however that nne of this matters, since no one other than the same people who were arguing at TCJ have decided to respond to this thread...Unless something unforeseen happens, it would appear that you're the only person in all of Fantasyland that really gives a damn about this subject."

Uh, Dan...something "unforeseen" has happened.
Acknowledge the validity and we'll move on.

Note to Veitch: I didn't initiate this thread here. Although given the tenor of the "Malaise" and "American Splendor" threads it would hardly seem inappropriate.

[This message has been edited by Robert (edited 07-28-99).]
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#281202 - 07/27/99 03:19 PM Re: "Comicon.com and a poor use of aggressive colors" revisited
Dan Holloway Offline
Member

Registered: 06/03/99
Posts: 96
Loc: Tampa/Tallahassee FL
Don-
As I said, half assed replies will be ignored. The first third of the thread that you're referring to amounts to a bunch of people (myself included) mouth on off in half joking fashion. To anyone not taking part in the discussion at that point, it would definately appear tedious and childish in nature. That's why I asked that anyone deciding to respond read the thread in it's ENTIRETY. The thread takes a very explicit turn less than half way through after remaining silent for over ten days, and it is at that point that a good deal of the "meat" of the discussion takes place. So, quack your way back over there and read the whole thing. If you choose not to, I understand, but don't expect anyone to consider your opinion an informed one.

Robert-
I would hardly call Rick Veitch showing up to deliver his daily flogging, followed by Don's uninformed response and some guy named Sgt. Carter "unforseen." In fact, it seems to be the most forseeable of circumstances given the way this board has been raging lately.

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#281203 - 07/27/99 03:49 PM Re: "Comicon.com and a poor use of aggressive colors" revisited
Kim Thompson Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 0
Oh Lord, when will it end?

Robert is still an idiot. Please stop encouraging him, everyone.

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#281204 - 07/27/99 04:27 PM Re: "Comicon.com and a poor use of aggressive colors" revisited
RICK Offline
Member

Registered: 05/03/99
Posts: 1805
Loc: Whitesboro, New York, USA
Kim: And what of poor old RICK?
Alas, the ego deflator is working! As per the request of Mr.Veitch I shall return to whence I came.
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#281205 - 07/28/99 02:12 AM Re: "Comicon.com and a poor use of aggressive colors" revisited
Robert Offline
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Registered: 02/23/99
Posts: 851
Loc: The belly of the beast
At this point there's just no explaining Kim's rising level of psychosis. Suddenly he makes the one guy posting immediately after him almost look rational.
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#281206 - 07/28/99 08:54 AM Re: "Comicon.com and a poor use of aggressive colors" revisited
Don Markstein Offline
Member

Registered: 11/24/98
Posts: 1202
Loc: Earth
Dan Holloway --
If there is a point made anywhere in that mass of tedious invective which is not made in the first post, please take pity on those of us who have lives and work for a living, and give us a concise summary.

Quack, Don


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#281207 - 07/28/99 10:56 AM Re: "Comicon.com and a poor use of aggressive colors" revisited
Dan Holloway Offline
Member

Registered: 06/03/99
Posts: 96
Loc: Tampa/Tallahassee FL
That's a fair enough request, Don. Not exactly how I wanted to spend my time, but I suppose I dug my own hole.

THE FIRST HALF (POSTS 1-19):

The thread originates with my post which was reposted here by Robert. Domingos, javagirl, Timothy J. Miller (MtPanic at the time) Chris Skonka and I proceed in taking joking (probably not funny, but still joking) pot shots at Comicon. Steve Lieber instructs on how to disable the flashing banners on the page, Karon Flage suggests that such comments should be directed at the owners of Comicon, JL Roberson gives his personal reasons for posting at Comicon, and tim harrison declares his love for the color red.

THE SECOND HALF (POSTS 20-48):

After being inactive for eight days, Robert Young revives the thread with a short post defending Comicon in which he points out that many of the people complaining about it also post there, proclaims an exchange at Comicon between Gary Groth and Rick Veitch to be the most enlightening thread at either sight, and questions why anyone would have a problem with the color red. Milo George then responds, pounting out that while some posters at the Journal board also use the TCJ board, Robert has been using the TCJ board only to defend Comicon. He then comments on the Gutters thread and the tendency of posters there to gang up on one person ad nausium until the thread reaches about 300 posts. There is then a somewhat neutral response from Timothy J. Miller, and then a response from Robert in which he denies that there is any similarity between his posting habits at TCJ and those of other TCJ posters at Comicon. He points out Kim Thompson's presence in the Gutters, and questions the integrity of posting the comments made in the thread thus far at TCJ rather than Comicon. Robert also made derogative comment about Timothy's mental capabilities in light of his mispelling of the word "intelligent"(which he apparently later edited out).

Kim Thompson then jumps in and mocks Robert for making fun of someone's spelling and then mispelling "similar" three words later, and informs Robert that he has not posted in gutters for weeks.

There's more, but I have to go to class. I will (reluctantly) finish this later. Christ this is tedious.

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#281208 - 07/28/99 02:43 PM Re: "Comicon.com and a poor use of aggressive colors" revisited
Dan Holloway Offline
Member

Registered: 06/03/99
Posts: 96
Loc: Tampa/Tallahassee FL
And basically Robert makes fun of people's spelling some more, Kim Milo and Timothy call him on it. Robert refuses to admit that he's being an ass about the spelling thing. I call him a prick, he calls me a coward. I say that my comments had already been brought up in the Timespell #4 thread at Comicon and no one seemed to care, then decided to post over here so that he'll stop giving me hell about it.

Sorry, but that shit in my last post took too long to do, and is probably just as tedious read as it was to write. I tried, Don.

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#281209 - 07/28/99 04:46 PM Re: "Comicon.com and a poor use of aggressive colors" revisited
Robert Offline
Member

Registered: 02/23/99
Posts: 851
Loc: The belly of the beast
Dan Holloway wrote: "--the selections you chose present the most biased representation of that thread I can imagine"
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#281210 - 07/29/99 08:34 AM Re: "Comicon.com and a poor use of aggressive colors" revisited
Don Markstein Offline
Member

Registered: 11/24/98
Posts: 1202
Loc: Earth
Dan, I don't want to come off like the guy who sneers at something he hasn't seen, dares you to show it to him, and no matter what it actually looks like, sneers that he'd been right the first time.

Unfortunately, it looks like I was right the first time. How is what you've just described different from the part I saw?

Since these things seldom take turns for the better, I figured I was justified in giving up after about a third, and saying so. Your reply indicated that perhaps I was wrong, and while my response might have been a little on the petulant side, it was intended as acknowledgment of such.

I appreciate the effort you've made to enlighten me, but for all the good it's done, you needn't have bothered. I really did read your posts with an open mind, but remain of the opinion that the TCJ thread cited is nothing but a mass of tedious invective, that the attempt to transplant it here is merely a waste of everyone's time, and that this thread would have been better suited to The Gutters, where it would not have wasted the time of anyone except those who seem to have all the time in the world for this sort of stuff.

I'll check back tomorrow to see if there's a reply to this post, but other than that, I've wasted enough of my own time on it already.

Quack, Don


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#281211 - 07/29/99 01:55 PM Re: "Comicon.com and a poor use of aggressive colors" revisited
Christos Offline
Member

Registered: 12/09/98
Posts: 33
Loc: Mclean, Va, USA
I am simply stunned that such a collection of self-regarding intellectuals has overlooked one salient fact regarding Comicon and it's color/ad scheme: the website is patterned after a comics convention. Comics + Con (which is often how the word 'Convention' is contracted)= Comicon.

So then, granting that the graphic and conceptual metaphor used is a convention (and let's be honest, how hard should that be to figure out if one bothered looking at the site's entrance page or the Main hall?), doesn't it make sense that it would be decorated like a convention? Or that it would be festooned with ads for comics-related stuff, like a convention? It is done so both consciously and lovingly. I mention the latter adverb because I am certain that there will be an assault on all that is unholy about the state of the comics business, including those 'rat-bastard-fanboy' conventions. Some people actually like the tradition as well as its corny and garish trappings. Granted, the only fan-convention of any sort I've attended is SPX/The Expo, but that doesn't mean I'm going to flippantly denigrate others' passtimes. Well, I would denigrate a pedophiliac's passtime, but that's something that is a little less subjective than this. Cultural relatavism goes only so far.

I happen to prefer soothing and low-key color arrangements to garish, myself. I happen to prefer clean, open spaces with little or no cluttering myself. I prefer lack of advertising, myself, with the caveat that I'd rather have big adds and free site than the opposite. That said, I happen not to have a problem with Comicon choosing to go joyfully and unabashedly down the path of classic comic and science-fiction fandom myself. I'm not sure why it would bother you.

Whatever problems you may perceive in Comicon.com, from the beginning it instantly grasped one thing you seem incapable of getting: art can be whimsical and fun, and doesn't always need to be held up on some kind of pedestal to pretentiousness. There are different levels for different tastes, and Comicon is pretty comfortable aiming at who they're aiming. Why feel the need to put it down?

I will admit that the reason I initially came to look at Comicon is that Steve Conley is a good friend. But the reason I come back is that the place is fun. Quelle horreur! Part of that fun is the classic tackiness that you choose to use as a cheap target.

Christian

P.S. As for whether or not Comicon has any material worth wasting time over, at the very least I like to look at the pretty pictures. I must be a moron.

P.S.S. Am I mistaken, or was TCJ.com's previous design absolutely, god-awfully ugly as sin? Perhaps you should further yourself a bit by reading some of the classics, those that any educated citizen worth his salt has under his belt. For example, the Bible. My chosen name not withstanding, I don't advocate many of the religious aspects in the Bible, per se. Yet it certainly is a repositary for a lot of timeless wisdom, such as 'Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.' I'm glad to finally be among those Chosen few! Up with TCJ! Yay for Perfection! Yay for regimentation into Administrators, Members, and Jr. Members! (But someone forgot the Hitlerjugende designation [img]http://207.69.158.95/ubb/smile.gif[/img])

P.S.S. I'm crossposting this on the thread on TCJ.com.

P.S.S.S. Oh and Kim, I'm happy to admit to Robert's neuroses if you will admit to the fact that Dan is your syphilitic, brain-dead gimp [img]http://207.69.158.95/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

[This message has been edited by Christos (edited 07-29-99).]
_________________________
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Quote:
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#281212 - 07/29/99 07:42 PM Re: "Comicon.com and a poor use of aggressive colors" revisited
Max Fisher Offline
Member

Registered: 03/18/99
Posts: 42
Loc: United States baby!
I read most of the stuff presented here and even went over to tcj for a peek (I'd never enter that forum though).

While I lack Christos' way with words I will say that Kim Thompson's behavior on this thread was not only mean but uncharacteristically empty-headed. And Dan Holloway and company weren't much better.

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#281213 - 07/30/99 12:01 AM Re: "Comicon.com and a poor use of aggressive colors" revisited
Dan Holloway Offline
Member

Registered: 06/03/99
Posts: 96
Loc: Tampa/Tallahassee FL
Once I posted that horribly tedious post in which I tried to summarize, I realized that as Don just said, it fails to give the impression that anything worthwhile was being writeen in tat thread. Admittedly, I did, a very poor job of weeding out the extemperanious [sic?] crap and getting to the points. Truth be told Don, there are few points in there worth reading, but you would probably have to read the thread yourself, and even if you did , by the time you waded through all the bitching and moaning, your brain may be so deadened that you'll find nothing there still. It is a bit ironic in hindsight that while that thread contained a few pointed shots at the Comicon boards by myself and others, the same thread contains some of the most childish bickering I've ever seen on any message board, and yes I'm responsible for my fair share of it. I just sincerely hope that this is a dead issue and we can all move on to discussing MAUS, or BATMAN, or any comic. Any comic at all.

[This message has been edited by Dan Holloway (edited 07-30-99).]

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#281214 - 07/30/99 02:06 PM Re: "Comicon.com and a poor use of aggressive colors" revisited
Rick Bradford Offline
Member

Registered: 01/14/99
Posts: 982
Loc: Texas, USA
Now you've done it! You fellas have got me seeing RED!

sheesh...
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#281215 - 07/30/99 11:46 PM Re: "Comicon.com and a poor use of aggressive colors" revisited
Phishtar Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/10/99
Posts: 21
Loc: Vermont, USA
Though there's probably no point in pointing this out... and I never post to TCJ, but what the heck...
But red, black and white is one of the oldest and most classic color schemes there IS.
You'll notice that the Coca-Cola can, despite being very "garish" by these standards, still sells pretty damn well, and might even be considered a highly successful example of good design...
The first colors you see as a baby are red, white and black... they're attention-getting and they're iconic.
If you want subtle, what the hell are you doing at an online comic convention anyway?
The banner ads bother the hell out of me too, but they're what pay for the site, so I don't feel it's really appropriate to complain about 'em too much...

--Phish*

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#281216 - 08/02/99 04:35 PM Re: "Comicon.com and a poor use of aggressive colors" revisited
Samuel Catalino Offline
Member

Registered: 04/04/99
Posts: 4447
Rick V,

What was the point of your post trading me for anyone? I have a no-trade clause and it was signed by Your Boss, Todd Mac and countersigned by his dad Bob. Al Simmons witnessed the document signed too.

Actually, I think I'm worth one Kim Thompson and half of Gary Groth (the back half, because he has no front).


Everyone else,

Most of this does belong in the gutters.
Let's put this stuff there.

Love and Misses,

SDC
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