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#28855 - 10/02/07 04:17 PM The Bryan Talbot "Extreme Dislike" Thread
gene phillips Offline
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Registered: 09/30/99
Posts: 5910
Loc: Houston, TX
Okay, I started to call it a "hate thread," but that seemed too strong for my feelings toward this guy for one poorly-written, one-sided excerpt in what sounds like a gossipy book.

Still, I really dislike what he did below, as I stated on the Sim thread, so I made a thread on the chance that someone else here thinks he's a colossal ass in this regard.

Here's the link to the excerpt:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cerebus/messages/132368?threaded=1&m=e&var=1&tidx=1

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#28856 - 10/02/07 04:40 PM Re: The Bryan Talbot "Extreme Dislike" Thread
Scott Shaw! Offline
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Registered: 02/01/00
Posts: 490
Loc: Sherman Oaks, California, USA
Sorry, Gene, but it doesn't bother me in the slightest. I don't mind reading Bryan's version of the the oft-told story; obviously, he writes very well. In fact, I love this sort of comic book "history"; whether or not it's true, only three people know what REALLY happened.

Besides, how can this book -- which, I believe is illustrated by the wonderful Hunt Emerson (a huge favorite of mine!) -- POSSIBLY compete with Internet message boards when it comes to "gossip"?

Aloha,

Scott!

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#28857 - 10/02/07 10:18 PM Re: The Bryan Talbot "Extreme Dislike" Thread
Charles Reece Offline
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Registered: 08/18/99
Posts: 10013
Loc: us of fuckin' a
Yeah, it sounds like his version of Anger's book, a comic book babylon. Big deal.
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#28858 - 10/03/07 08:21 AM Re: The Bryan Talbot "Extreme Dislike" Thread
gene phillips Offline
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Registered: 09/30/99
Posts: 5910
Loc: Houston, TX
Scott S: "obviously, he writes very well."

Technically, I guess it's possible for a hatchet job to be well written, even if one doesn't bother to include bonafides like "I saw this personally" or "Jeff Smith was my source of information on this." But if it's not any worse than any other tell-all, it's also not any better.

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#28859 - 10/03/07 08:49 AM Re: The Bryan Talbot "Extreme Dislike" Thread
gene phillips Offline
Member

Registered: 09/30/99
Posts: 5910
Loc: Houston, TX
Quote:
Originally posted by Charles Reece:
Yeah, it sounds like his version of Anger's book, a comic book babylon. Big deal.
Well, you're certainly not alone. A TCJ poster put up the link way back on Sept 19, and not one poster in 17 pages of commentary has had a negative thing to say about Talbot or Smith.

Dave Sim certainly did himself no favors in hurling two or three unfounded accusations at Gary Groth, but why are his unfounded accusations the only thing at which fandom takes umbrage?

Talbot (maybe relaying stories told him by Smith, who the fuck knows) put a story into print that accuses Sim of being a pissy little coward. Maybe he is and maybe he isn't, but the accusation's no less unfounded than anything Sim said to Groth.

Sim deserved some of the crap he brought on himself.

Talbot deserves his fair share,but he's not getting it-- maybe because, unlike Sim, he never meant much to fandom, never disappointed fans in any big way. (I know, armchair psychology again.)

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#28860 - 10/03/07 10:12 AM Re: The Bryan Talbot "Extreme Dislike" Thread
jackdaw Offline
Member

Registered: 07/26/05
Posts: 514
Gene,
Find it difficult to see anything to get riled about. What specifically makes you doubt the story's veracity?

Anyway, while I'm posting on a Bryan Talbot thread I might as well declare a bias...I've enjoyed practically everything of his I've read...especially Heart of Empire, Luther Arkwright, and the Tale of One Bad Rat.

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#28861 - 10/03/07 11:35 AM Re: The Bryan Talbot "Extreme Dislike" Thread
Charles Reece Offline
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Registered: 08/18/99
Posts: 10013
Loc: us of fuckin' a
I'm curious:

What crap was it that Sim didn't deserve that he brought on himself.

What negative thing should be said of Smith?

Talbot's take sounds like he believes Sim is counting on Smith acting decent enough to not kick his ass. That's plausible. I guess it's possible that Smith is really afraid of Sim, though. Just doubtful. He seems tough in that writerly sort of way. It's hardly a coincedence that Sim admires tough writers, not tough men. But, who knows, maybe he suppresses his sexual urges by watching UFC.
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#28862 - 10/03/07 11:59 AM Re: The Bryan Talbot "Extreme Dislike" Thread
gene phillips Offline
Member

Registered: 09/30/99
Posts: 5910
Loc: Houston, TX
"Gene,
Find it difficult to see anything to get riled about. What specifically makes you doubt the story's veracity?"

It's what I didn't see, at least in the excerpt. How does Talbot know any of this stuff happened? Sim has his version, which he's elucidated as someone who was there. I don't know whether Smith, who was also there, has told the version here to Talbot, but Talbot recounts that version as "this is what happened." Was he there, or did Smith tell him this story?

I'm not concerned with whether Sim or the maybe-Smith version is the true one. I'll never know, nor will any of you. But Talbot is choosing a version and representing it as the only game in town because it suits his ends to ridicule Sim. He throws in a lot of anti-Sim stuff to "lead" the reader. Sim was maybe jealous of Smith's success. Sim was pretentious. Sim stewed in his juices for a year. Smith, though, is an admirable fellow, "well built" and all.

The "Nazi Dave" issue of the JOURNAL looks "fair and balanced" next to this treacle.

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#28863 - 10/03/07 12:31 PM Re: The Bryan Talbot "Extreme Dislike" Thread
gene phillips Offline
Member

Registered: 09/30/99
Posts: 5910
Loc: Houston, TX
I wrote:

"Sim deserved some of the crap he brought on himself."

Charles wrote:

"What crap was it that Sim didn't deserve that he brought on himself."

Sim brought Gary's attack on himself by tossing off a remark about the JOURNAL's coverage. It's debateable as to whether Sim deserved the full nine yards, though I give Gary credit for having initially answered in a humorous manner. It's more a matter of degree than of specific undeserved comments.

Charles also wrote:

"What negative thing should be said of Smith?"

No more than should have been said of Sim: that Smith could have lied in his description of the incident to make himself look good. I'm thinking of the original claim that he said he'd take Dave out and deck him, but it may also apply to this new story, if Smith is the source of it.

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#28864 - 10/03/07 12:47 PM Re: The Bryan Talbot "Extreme Dislike" Thread
Charles Reece Offline
Member

Registered: 08/18/99
Posts: 10013
Loc: us of fuckin' a
"No more" also encompssess "significantly less" or "none at all." I'd go with the last. Smith has dealt with this situation in as decent a fashion as one could expect. Sim hasn't.

While we'll never be sure of what exactly happened, we can evaluate the probability of truth based on who has a loony take on just about everything under the sun and who doesn't.

You'd be going on about "matter of degree" or whatnot if Groth said a sarcastic word about an actual Nazi.
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