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#294816 - 12/09/02 03:20 AM Re: UPDATED: ROB LIEFELD ON ALIAS, JJ ABRAMS AND HOLLYWOOD
Chris Irvine Offline
Member

Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 1243
Loc: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Oh yea, wasn`t The Mark with Will Smith great or what? Da cosmicality of it was beyond descraptions!!! Kind-of a blend between Maximum Overdrive and Mary Popins with a touch of The Grapes of Wrath.

p.s. Liefeld fears Diamond :p
_________________________
I never was a Space Ranger
--------------------------
...circus showing and as he watches the 12 year old on the trapeze, turns to his date and says "Yea, I've had my eye on him for awhile." eww

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#294817 - 12/09/02 09:22 AM Re: UPDATED: ROB LIEFELD ON ALIAS, JJ ABRAMS AND HOLLYWOOD
Hank Wirtz Offline
Member

Registered: 06/26/01
Posts: 146
Loc: Issaquah WA USA
Quote:
Originally posted by steel: A New Hope:


I just really don't understand all this anger over late indy books.


As a comics consumer, I must echo Derek's reasons as a retailer for bashing Rob. If Rob solicits YB for October, my retailer has to work to a budget and has to take a HUGE risk on any RL book. Comic buyers are fickle and may either buy the thing like...well...something that sells really well, OR they may decide they're sick of Rob, and boycott the thing, Millar scripts be damned.

SO, the retailer has very little chance of accurately predicting sales figures for this book, and will likely either disappoint customers by under-ordering, or will have boxes and boxes for the quarter bin, like that Image/Valiant crossover that had issue COLORS rather than numbers. (What was that called? DeathBlood? YoungDeath? BloodCry? WildBlood?)

In any case, there's just no middle ground with Rob.

So how does that affect me, comics consumer? well, let's take YB's solicited shipping month, October. Had the retailers known YB would ship so late that it would be resolicited (and I'm not say it's going to be, but two months late and no new ship date, well, you do the math), they could have redirected those ordering dollars towards projects that are RIGHT in comics. Like the Blue Monday Halloween special. Like Crossgen books. Like Bone. Heck, even Loeb and Lee's first issue of Batman - I doubt any retailers say they over-ordered that.

Liefeld is a weed, stealing water, sunlight and nutrients from the rest of the crops. He keeps me from being able to get quality projects that I don't hear about until after solicitation has passed. That's why I, as a comics reader, resent the crap he pulls.

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#294818 - 12/09/02 10:29 AM Re: UPDATED: ROB LIEFELD ON ALIAS, JJ ABRAMS AND HOLLYWOOD
MSlander Offline
Member

Registered: 08/08/02
Posts: 65
Loc: Arlington, VA
Steel,

I'm not sure why you ignore the good points made
by our friendly neigborhood comics dealer about how Liefield's practices hurt the entire comics industry by squeezing out other titles and keeping htem off the shelves. If find it odd that you would elect NOT to care about this. You seem to see this as a retailer's problem and unrelated to you continued enjoyment of comics. Well, I sure hope that your local retailer stays in business, even though he's been burned a dozen times, alloting cash for the Liefield book that never was. I hope your other favorite artists and writers still get their chance to be seen and read, even though theirt book didn't get ordered because retailers were budgeting for another Liefield phantom title.

Yep, you're right. Comic fans shouldn't care about late books. Its only a retailer problem. And I mena, hey man, you can empathize. Right?

Your response to the irritated retailer is flawed in one other small detail....you wonder why people don't let things in their real lives take precedence over their annoyance with Liefield.

Let me answer that for you. They do. But they aren't liklely to dwell on that stuff on a comic book message board.

Are you or are you not here with us posting on the Pulse message board? Ok then. Long as we have that straight.

Would you rather me go through my problems with my student lons, my mortgage, and I think I may have the flu too.

Should I discuss all theis before getting to why Liefield is a ninny?

I think not. Your response to Mr. Retailer is ridiculous in that the only and perfect place to complain about Liefield is on a message board in a thread relating to a recent interview.

I assure you, neither my boss nor my wife nor either of my two cats has any interest in my opinion of Rob, but someone on this board might.

Thus, I reiterate. he's a ninny of the first order.

If you want to hear about my problems or my life, fine, but I'm pretty sure no one else here has any interest.


-- MS
_________________________
"Everywhere there is incessant relative change in position throughout the universe, and the observer is always at the center of things." -- Giordano Bruno: "On Cause, Principle and Unity"

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#294819 - 12/09/02 11:04 AM Re: UPDATED: ROB LIEFELD ON ALIAS, JJ ABRAMS AND HOLLYWOOD
Bill Lange Offline
Member

Registered: 02/04/99
Posts: 238
Loc: Waynesboro,Pa.
Hi,

All I can say is I WAS going to buy Youngblood,
But now I don't feel the need to spend any money on a story that the artist cares about so little about he's moved on to another project.
He says he is working hard on redrawing the script.
He says he can't do a regular book.
All this, and he takes on two projects at a time, while knowing this, and promises that it will be out on time.
Sorry, but much like Liefeld, I've moved on to other, more interesting books.

Bill Lange

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#294820 - 12/09/02 11:19 AM Re: UPDATED: ROB LIEFELD ON ALIAS, JJ ABRAMS AND HOLLYWOOD
steel: A Long Departed Hero Offline
Member

Registered: 08/29/01
Posts: 4326
Loc: The MBA (Mysterious Blue Area)...
The comics industry is fukt! Liefeld is a drop in the hat. My "flaw" is not that I want people to discuss their real life problems here. You misunderstand. My "flaw," if you can call it that, is that I don't see any reason for casual consumers to get so upset over Liefeld having problems with a comic of his own creation. Upon your unfortunate birth, did God give you a signed agreement that said you were entitled to one Bloodsport#1 in October of 2002? No? Hmm.

Posted by Slander:
I assure you, neither my boss nor my wife nor either of my two cats has any interest in my opinion of Rob, but someone on this board might.

I assure you, no one here is interested either. Negativity bothers me. It accomplishes nothing.

Another gem:
If you want to hear about my problems or my life, fine, but I'm pretty sure no one else here has any interest.

I don't want to hear about any of your problems. You sound like a whiny little girl.

Side note: I understand retailers' distress. I am questioning consumer hatred. My LCS doesn't have to guess about me, as I ordered the book when it was solicited.
_________________________
The Man of Mettle

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#294821 - 12/09/02 01:20 PM Re: UPDATED: ROB LIEFELD ON ALIAS, JJ ABRAMS AND HOLLYWOOD
Jholstei Offline
Member

Registered: 11/13/01
Posts: 57
Loc: Arlington, MA, USA
Look, I'll admit it. I'm a closet Liefeld fan. I like Rob's artwork. For all it's flaw it's dynamic and attention getting. But his shipping history does raise some serious concerns.

One of those projects I've always thought would be instructive to do, but can't actually see spending the time to do it, would be to make a list of all the projects Rob's solicited and never shipped. Just off the top of my head, do you remember...

- Badrock. Got one issue out, and never shipped another. First issue even ended with a cliffhanger.
- Rob! Liefeld does autobiogaphy. It looked like he was going to try something new, but it never shipped.
- Warchild. It had an Alan Moore script, so I wanted it. Never shipped.
- Re-Gex- Two issues came out, a number 1 and a subsequent number 0 (new math, anyone?). And this was the series that was supposed to put Rob back on the map. Jeph Loeb was even scripting this puppy!
- Alan Moore's Awesome Adventures - Finally we were going to see all the Alan Moore materiel Rob owns but has never published. The missing Youngblood. The missing Supreme. I think one issue came out.
- Fighting American - The last series had a story by Jim Starlin and some fantastic art by Stephen Platt. 3 issues out of 4 shipped, so that's something. But I really wanted to see the 4th.
- Prophet- I remember a relaunch of this with a new art team and a McFarlane cover (which was really just a sketch printed as a cover, but I still thought it was ballsy to have a Liefeld comic with a McFarlane cover on it). 1 issue.
- The Allies - Alan Moore does the Avengers in the Awesome Universe! Yow! A promo comic was issued with a poster. Series never happened.
- Youngblood - Year 1. This series history has been well chronicled on the web, what with the misfires with Jim Starlin and Kurt Busiek.

And this is just the stuff that was actually solicited! It doesn't take into account the series Rob's talked about but never done (the new Cable series, anyone?)

I wish Arcade comics all the best. Both Bloodsport and Alias are comics I would want to read. But having Liefeld as your poster-boy does not bode well.

-J
_________________________
www.jersworld.com
Notjust a web-comic
A labor of love

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#294822 - 12/09/02 01:40 PM Re: UPDATED: ROB LIEFELD ON ALIAS, JJ ABRAMS AND HOLLYWOOD
siegwulf Offline
Member

Registered: 11/30/01
Posts: 161
Loc: Avon, France
• well, actually, badrock had two issues, and two new issues with grifter from wildstorm, you can check here for the covers and I have the comics :
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/extremegenesis/Badrock.html
wink

• for Fighting American, fact is issue 4 has been delayed due to licence problem, the 4th issue hasn't been allowed to be published but it was really meant to, and the issue was finished. just a bad luck on this series. And I really liked this series you know. frown

• re:gex, we'll see a back-up story in the bloodsport series, and it apparead we could see the series back in a near future too. and there's a rare re:gex issue (with the origins of genie) somewhere in a comic I don't own (I saw the pages published thanks to a friend who has this issue), but I'm searching. wink

• for the other projects, yes it's a shame. I was waiting for warchild by moore, the allies too, etc.

Alas, this is something we can still hope to see one day... with major schedule problems, as usual... and it's one of rob's hughest fan who tells you that. frown

you can still check my website based on him if you want to see covers, artwork, links, forum, news and else :
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/extremegenesis/

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#294823 - 12/09/02 02:31 PM Re: UPDATED: ROB LIEFELD ON ALIAS, JJ ABRAMS AND HOLLYWOOD
Chris Irvine Offline
Member

Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 1243
Loc: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Stop defending him frenchy, he doesn`t care about anybody but himself. Do you think he cares if the fans have to wait forever for his books? Before anyone gets a copy of Youngblood: Bloodsport 1 i expect a mutiny.

Furthermore, look at disdain he has for the comic-book industry when he talks about it. And these are bad feelings that he was the sole responsible of creating. If he view the industry as flawed, why doesn`t he try to change that by creating enthousisam like Jim Lee did by doing Batman?
_________________________
I never was a Space Ranger
--------------------------
...circus showing and as he watches the 12 year old on the trapeze, turns to his date and says "Yea, I've had my eye on him for awhile." eww

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#294824 - 12/09/02 03:06 PM Re: UPDATED: ROB LIEFELD ON ALIAS, JJ ABRAMS AND HOLLYWOOD
admwriter Offline
Member

Registered: 09/05/01
Posts: 451
Loc: Bear, DE USA
Quote:
Originally posted by steel: A New Hope:
Negativity bothers me. It accomplishes nothing.


Surely the irony of this statement doesn't escape you?

Aaron

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#294825 - 12/09/02 03:35 PM Re: UPDATED: ROB LIEFELD ON ALIAS, JJ ABRAMS AND HOLLYWOOD
MSlander Offline
Member

Registered: 08/08/02
Posts: 65
Loc: Arlington, VA
“I don't want to hear about any of your problems. You sound like a whiny little girl.”

Oooh....Steel. So nasty.

Thanks for making, if not really understanding my point. I was responding to your statement that,

“You should have things in real life that take priority over this comic.”

The point I was making is that, of course people do have those concerns but they aren’t likely to talk about them on this message board. They are likely, however, to express their opinion about how Liefield is a talentless hack that has no respect for the industry or his audience.

That would be fair and foreseeable game here, no?

You said in your post that people should have other concerns and not worry too much about Leifield's scheduling problems. My point was that in this forum, you SHOULD expect that people would discuss Rob's lack of talent or professionalism, because that is what this forum is here for.

You stated that “I understand retailers' distress. I am questioning consumer hatred.”

Fair enough, but consumers have a right to express their displeasure about a creator who is unreliable or unprofessional. That is all anyone is doing here. No one is saying that Rob owes them anything, only that, given his patterns, they aren’t interested or willing to purchase his books anymore.

The retailer, posting above, illustrated quite well, how Rob’s tactics - and they are tactics - result in other talents being stymied and the entire business being hurt in the long run.

As far as feeling sympathy with the retailer, well, go back and re-read your post. If you really feel like that, then I'm not sure what else there is to say. You seem profoundly unconcerned about how Rob’s (and others) pattern of disrespect hurts the comic retailer business. In fact, you closing statement seems to boil it down to what you think it’s all about.

“I just really don't understand all this anger over late indy books.”

How you can close on that note, after having a retailer give you and accurate and detailed description about How Rob coming in six month’s late affects his business is mind- boggling.

Somebody flip the switch because this cat is brain-dead...

Its not just about LATE BOOKS, but rather a pattern of unprofessionalism that hurts the industry that Rob claims to adore.

But hey man, that’s negativity and we just shouldn't do it, right?

Lets just all wait until Rob feels he’s ready to unleash his next monstrosity on us. I personally can’t wait to see all the sequences he “re-drew” to make better. I’ve got a fiver if anyone can pick out any sections that look better than others. I have no doubt that we will be treated to another dutch angled muddle filled with many enticing rounds of “hide the elbow” followed by a glorious essay on “ways to camouflage the ankle is six easy steps.”

FULL DISCLOSURE: Rob’s initial run on New Mutants was one of the most exciting periods ever for me as a comics fan. The book fell apart soon after the switch to X-Force, but in those heady days, I thought the stuff Rob was doing was top notch. It wasn’t about his art, which was a poor as it has been ever since, it was about seeing his ideas on the page.

Unfortunately, the guy has been trading on those ideas ever since. Its time he stopped and its time we stopped supporting him.

-- MS
_________________________
"Everywhere there is incessant relative change in position throughout the universe, and the observer is always at the center of things." -- Giordano Bruno: "On Cause, Principle and Unity"

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