#397835 - 11/27/03 04:39 AM
Re: 40 years ago, JFK was murdered.
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Member
Registered: 04/03/00
Posts: 519
Loc: NY, NY USA
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Originally posted by Samuel Catalino:
It is the same kind of hatred that was directed at Nixon for many years, so it is quite comparable.
Had Clinton came clean and Nixon too, there would not have been all of this impeachment nonsense.
Yes, Clinton sure outsmarted those Republicans, that is why they took control of both houses in 1994 and except for the brief hiccup in 2001, both the Senate and the House. That is the Clinton legacy. Now you have Frist in charge with Santorum (who is even more a foe than Gingrich) in the Senate and Dennis Haslett(I think) in the House. The Democrat party took additional losses during the 2002 election, so they look to be more the minority party as the Republicans were prior to 1994. Yeah, Clinton gave the Republicans Congress. Nor could he overtake it in 1996.
Again, there is no Jr. Bush. I do agree with the thing on Martha Stewart, whose crimes seem pretty obvious. I would very much like to see Lay and his bunch get charged as well. Or course, I have to remind you that Enron did a lot of donating to the Clinton campaign in 1996. Enron donated to democrats, ok. But what does that have to do with his being Bush Jr's largest contributor and close friend, robbing millions in a scheme, and this President, he who it is said has character and morals, telling the Justice Dept to not pursue it? Bush is a crook, plain and simple, and he covered for his friend. As to Clinton and the republicans: Yes, the Republicans gained congress in 1994. The Speaker, Newt, decided this was tantamount to a coup, and proclaimed a second presidency. Then Newt decided to play tough and forced a shutdown of government. Clinton rightly blamed it on Gingrich, and the people agreed. Smarting from this, and from the cessation of the conservative court-packing that has been going on since the 1980s, they got some judges beholden to Jerry Falwell to select Ken Starr to hound the Clintons on anything and everything. Only one "President" lost their job over that fiasco, and it wasn't Clinton. Clinton took the economy away from Republicans as their issue, the people didn't buy republican bullshit about "character" and family values, and that is why Clinton won two terms. The fact that hicks sandwiched btw both coasts insist on voting for whoever projects dumbest is unfortunate. But then again, republicans have been preaching this folksy anti-intellectualism nonsense for a long time. So when Alfred E Newman runs for office, he gets elected with a little help from his brother in Florida. But here it is, 2003, and republicans still can't get over either Clinton. Hillary is constantly attacked on such "news" outlets as FOXNews, and they wasted no time in sending out conspiracy theories that Wesley Clarke was a Bill scheme to sabotage the party so Hillary can run the world in 2008. Also, I don't see that the 2002 results is any statement on Clinton one way or another. Bush was one of two people who actually benefitted politically from 9/11 (the other being Guiliani), and it is no shock that a year later the country rallied around his message. Sickening maybe, a shock no. Sadly, tax bribes of pennies will probably buy more votes for republicans even as they give millions in tax relief to people who have billions. But as long as you say "Jesus" and "God", you are ensured of a republican vote, and the vote of all the illiterates out there too dumb or ignorant to read a real newspaper.
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#397836 - 11/27/03 10:34 AM
Re: 40 years ago, JFK was murdered.
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Registered: 04/04/99
Posts: 4447
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Originally posted by Ken Rothstein:
Enron donated to democrats, ok. But what does that have to do with his being Bush Jr's largest contributor and close friend, robbing millions in a scheme, and this President, he who it is said has character and morals, telling the Justice Dept to not pursue it? Bush is a crook, plain and simple, and he covered for his friend. Actually they are in the top ten. Speaking of Enron's real influence, Clinton ranks up there quite well. http://www.mediaresearch.org/realitycheck/2002/fax20020305.asp http://talking_points.tripod.com/enron/id9.html Not to mention Clinton's cronies pleaded Enron's case. I don't recall Bush doing that, actually didn't he leave them out to dry for their deceit? Of course some of these sites can't agree how much Enron gave Bush the last from 1994 - 2002. The same people say 700 grand in one, then 2 million in another. Originally posted by Ken Rothstein: As to Clinton and the republicans:
Yes, the Republicans gained congress in 1994. The Speaker, Newt, decided this was tantamount to a coup, and proclaimed a second presidency. Then Newt decided to play tough and forced a shutdown of government. Clinton rightly blamed it on Gingrich, and the people agreed. Actually some of the same indisgressions that caught up to Clinton caused the downfall of Gingrich, especially when it came to the women. The shutdown played a part, but did not win back Congress for the Democrats. You would have thought with the so called great (which was going into the toilet by election 2000)economy, Gore should have won easily. Originally posted by Ken Rothstein: Smarting from this, and from the cessation of the conservative court-packing that has been going on since the 1980s, they got some judges beholden to Jerry Falwell to select Ken Starr to hound the Clintons on anything and everything. Only one "President" lost their job over that fiasco, and it wasn't Clinton. Can you prove that these judges were beholden to Jerry Falwell? That is a ridiculous charge!Hey hounding the President began with Reagan and for far less. There has been a great deal of abuse with the Independent Counsel and that might be why the law was not renewed. Originally posted by Ken Rothstein: Clinton took the economy away from Republicans as their issue, the people didn't buy republican bullshit about "character" and family values, and that is why Clinton won two terms. The public bought it because for the first time in forty years both the House and Senate came under the control of the Republicans. GHW Bush failed to keep his promise of no new taxes, and the Democrats did not let him forget it. The Republicans controlled the purse strings which is why we had a budget surplus, which really never was a surplus because of budget shenanigans. We have not had a real surplus for over forty years. Clinton won both terms because of the division of the Republican party, receiving less than 50 percent of the vote both times, just as Bush did in 2000. Originally posted by Ken Rothstein: The fact that hicks sandwiched btw both coasts insist on voting for whoever projects dumbest is unfortunate. But then again, republicans have been preaching this folksy anti-intellectualism nonsense for a long time. So when Alfred E Newman runs for office, he gets elected with a little help from his brother in Florida. I thought he recused himself from the process. Whoops, I forgot. You are not interested in facts. Originally posted by Ken Rothstein: But here it is, 2003, and republicans still can't get over either Clinton. Hillary is constantly attacked on such "news" outlets as FOXNews, and they wasted no time in sending out conspiracy theories that Wesley Clarke was a Bill scheme to sabotage the party so Hillary can run the world in 2008. Well, I would like to know how those papers mysteriously appeared and how she made so much money in futures. Personally, I think Hillary is small potatoes in the arena and people give her far too much attention. I think that the Democrats need no one to sabotoge the party in 2004. Unfortunately, none of the losers will stop the Bush juggernaut and money making machine. Nor is there any candidate in the Democrat party that is worthy of my vote. Originally posted by Ken Rothstein: Also, I don't see that the 2002 results is any statement on Clinton one way or another. Bush was one of two people who actually benefitted politically from 9/11 (the other being Guiliani), and it is no shock that a year later the country rallied around his message. Sickening maybe, a shock no. No, the 2002 results have nothing to do with Clinton, but with the Democratic party. The amazement to me was that race in Louisiana for the Senate last December was as close as it was. Bush may have benefitted from 9/11 politically, but I do not see how Guiliani has. He is no longer in office, and he had his woman problems. Originally posted by Ken Rothstein: Sadly, tax bribes of pennies will probably buy more votes for republicans even as they give millions in tax relief to people who have billions. But as long as you say "Jesus" and "God", you are ensured of a republican vote, and the vote of all the illiterates out there too dumb or ignorant to read a real newspaper. Good bigoted views on your part. What would you classify a real newspaper, the New York Times? Cripes, the National Enquirer has more integrity than most of the newspapers out there. Nice to know you want to persecute people who believe in God and Jesus. Are you ready to set the lions on them? Disgusting.
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"If we lose a hundred troops a week, then Dean will be our next Prez." Jack V, avid Dean supporter with no concern for the troops.
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#397837 - 11/27/03 02:19 PM
Re: 40 years ago, JFK was murdered.
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Member
Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 1217
Loc: Thornhill, Ontario, Canada
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Originally posted by Samuel Catalino:
Well, I find the comparison of Nixon and McCarthy to be ridiculous. Why?
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#397838 - 11/27/03 03:10 PM
Re: 40 years ago, JFK was murdered.
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Member
Registered: 04/03/00
Posts: 519
Loc: NY, NY USA
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Sorry, it was my mistake. The Judge who appointed Starr was the protege of Jesse Helms, not Jerry Falwell. Same agenda, different blight on humanity representing it.
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#397839 - 11/27/03 07:04 PM
Re: 40 years ago, JFK was murdered.
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Member
Registered: 12/18/01
Posts: 1259
Loc: San Francisco, CA USA
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Only conspriacy theorists consider what happened a murder.
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#397840 - 11/27/03 07:09 PM
Re: 40 years ago, JFK was murdered.
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Member
Registered: 05/10/99
Posts: 1080
Loc: Mason, MI, USA
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In the first two years in office, Bill Clinton and Newt Gingrich, through their words and actions, managed to convince conservative Democrats that they would be more comfortable voting Republican. Liberal Republicans, however, have only slowly began to trickle over to the Dems. What the Donkey Party needs to do, since the GOP is now run by Dixiecrats, neocons, and corporate bigwigs, is start acting like liberal Republicans (Nelson Rockefeller, Jim Jeffords, etc.) to bring those voters solidly over to their side.
Oh and Sam is wrong. Jeb Bush did not recuse himself from the recount efforts. In fact, he stated that he could neither recuse himself from his duties as governor nor from being Dubya's brother.
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Ted J. Kilvington, Jr.
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"I still have that comic, only now it's in liquid form!"
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#397841 - 11/27/03 11:57 PM
Re: 40 years ago, JFK was murdered.
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Member
Registered: 04/04/99
Posts: 4447
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Originally posted by TJKILV aka KEN WALTERS: In the first two years in office, Bill Clinton and Newt Gingrich, through their words and actions, managed to convince conservative Democrats that they would be more comfortable voting Republican. Liberal Republicans, however, have only slowly began to trickle over to the Dems. What the Donkey Party needs to do, since the GOP is now run by Dixiecrats, neocons, and corporate bigwigs, is start acting like liberal Republicans (Nelson Rockefeller, Jim Jeffords, etc.) to bring those voters solidly over to their side.
Oh and Sam is wrong. Jeb Bush did not recuse himself from the recount efforts. In fact, he stated that he could neither recuse himself from his duties as governor nor from being Dubya's brother. No, I am not wrong. Jeb did recuse himself. http://www.newsmax.com/showinsidecover.shtml?a=2000/11/8/183706 I remember it well, then it was left for Butterworth and Harris to fight over what to do about the election.
_________________________
"If we lose a hundred troops a week, then Dean will be our next Prez." Jack V, avid Dean supporter with no concern for the troops.
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#397843 - 11/30/03 08:56 AM
Re: 40 years ago, JFK was murdered.
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Member
Registered: 04/04/99
Posts: 4447
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An opinion piece? Well, I can only go by what was actually going on in Florida at the time, and Jeb pretty much stayed out of it. Harris and Butterworth had fun with it though, and it ended up making Katherine Harris the most hated Republican woman in Democrat circles because of it, ranking right up there close to Hillary for hated Democrat women in Republican circles.
_________________________
"If we lose a hundred troops a week, then Dean will be our next Prez." Jack V, avid Dean supporter with no concern for the troops.
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