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#397825 - 11/25/03 04:48 AM Re: 40 years ago, JFK was murdered.
RichJohnston Offline
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Registered: 03/17/99
Posts: 309
JFK's enduring legacy will be the push to ensure there was a man on the moon in 69.

And that he pushed Doctor Who's first episode to Saturday night where it stayed and prospered after the football.
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#397826 - 11/26/03 10:28 PM Re: 40 years ago, JFK was murdered.
Johnny Nemo Offline
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Registered: 05/19/01
Posts: 119
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
Nixon wasn't a good guy, or even a good president, but he was the most significant post-WWII president. Kennedy? Overrated. Reagan? Way overrated. "Baby Doc" Bush? Oh man ...
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#397827 - 11/26/03 11:05 PM Re: 40 years ago, JFK was murdered.
Ken Rothstein Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/00
Posts: 519
Loc: NY, NY USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan20:


If I remember correcty, Jack Ruby died of natural causes in prison, though I think he went nuts by the end.


Supposedly, he died of Cancer in prison in 1967. It is terribly convenient he died so soon.

Ruby was interviewed in 1965 by Dorothy Kilgallen. Wouldn't you know it, she just happened to commit suicide soon after and before she could publish what was in the interview.

Her friend, who was rumored to have had her notes, died a couple of days later.

Too many deaths from such a small pool of individuals for me.

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#397828 - 11/26/03 11:19 PM Re: 40 years ago, JFK was murdered.
Ken Rothstein Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/00
Posts: 519
Loc: NY, NY USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Samuel Catalino:


Nixon was no more of a great president than Clinton. I find Clinton pretty much the same as I do Nixon.


I don't know how you got on Clinton, but the two have nothing in common.

Clinton's crimes all relate to personal goings on, and nothing like Watergate. Republicans, such as yourself, can't get over Clinton and hate him without really knowing why.

His major crime is he stopped the conservative revolution of the 1990s, outsmarted and outpoliticked republicans at every turn, stopped the insane drive to stack the courts with conservative idealogues, managed to balance budgets, be president at a time of wall street growth, and the people liked him despite his not adhering to the narrow terms of morals or values that republicans want everyone (else) to live by.

He was a great President because he outmaneuvered Newt Gingrich, and it was the crusade against Clinton that led to the end of Gingrich. The entire world owes Clinton a debt that can never be paid for that alone.

Now if you want to look at crooks, try looking at Jr Bush, and his lying to start a war, the way he stopped the justice dept from investigating Ken Lay, and how he has managed to send billions to Dick Cheney's pals. It seems inconceivable that the justice dept is going after Martha Stewart for her $250,000 move, but sees nothing wrong with the millions upon millions Mr Lay and Enron stole.

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#397829 - 11/26/03 11:51 PM Re: 40 years ago, JFK was murdered.
Korvac Offline
Member

Registered: 02/08/00
Posts: 1686
Loc: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Republicans will never get over the fact that the American people didn't give two craps over, as Chris Rock put it 'A man lying about receiving a blowjob.'

The guy presided over the longest period of sustained economic growth in history, improved America's standing worldwide and worked decisivly against Al Qaida and terrorism in general. Then Bush came in and completely ignored all the Clinton White House's warnings about bin Laden and Al Qaida and won military engagements decisively, initially, in both Afghanistan and Iraq with a military whose structure Clinton oversaw for eight years.

He wasn't a Liberal. He was, at best, a moderate, but even that is too much for the Far Right who really do believe the un-medicated ravings of Anne Coulter when she screeches that everyone who doesn't think exactly as they do is a traitor.
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#397830 - 11/27/03 12:02 AM Re: 40 years ago, JFK was murdered.
Samuel Catalino Offline
Member

Registered: 04/04/99
Posts: 4447
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan20:


Well, the Alger Hiss case continues to be debated.
As for comparisons to McCarthy, I don't want to get into specific similarities and contrasts, but Nixon made quite a lot of ridiculous anti-Commie statements and built a lot of his political career by hunting down Reds on every corner.


Well, I find the comparison of Nixon and McCarthy to be ridiculous.
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#397831 - 11/27/03 12:22 AM Re: 40 years ago, JFK was murdered.
Samuel Catalino Offline
Member

Registered: 04/04/99
Posts: 4447
Quote:
Originally posted by RichJohnston:
JFK's enduring legacy will be the push to ensure there was a man on the moon in 69.

And that he pushed Doctor Who's first episode to Saturday night where it stayed and prospered after the football.


Right on both accounts.

What Rich meant to say was the assassination of Kennedy pushed Doctor Who's first episode to Saturday night...I thought it was around 5 PM when I was over there.
_________________________
"If we lose a hundred troops a week, then Dean will be our next Prez." Jack V, avid Dean supporter with no concern for the troops.

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#397832 - 11/27/03 12:25 AM Re: 40 years ago, JFK was murdered.
Samuel Catalino Offline
Member

Registered: 04/04/99
Posts: 4447
Quote:
Originally posted by Ken Rothstein:


Supposedly, he died of Cancer in prison in 1967. It is terribly convenient he died so soon.

Ruby was interviewed in 1965 by Dorothy Kilgallen. Wouldn't you know it, she just happened to commit suicide soon after and before she could publish what was in the interview.

Her friend, who was rumored to have had her notes, died a couple of days later.

Too many deaths from such a small pool of individuals for me.



He did die of cancer in prison.

I agree with your views about the many deaths. I wonder if all were from natural causes though.
_________________________
"If we lose a hundred troops a week, then Dean will be our next Prez." Jack V, avid Dean supporter with no concern for the troops.

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#397833 - 11/27/03 12:34 AM Re: 40 years ago, JFK was murdered.
Samuel Catalino Offline
Member

Registered: 04/04/99
Posts: 4447
Quote:
Originally posted by Ken Rothstein:


I don't know how you got on Clinton, but the two have nothing in common.

Clinton's crimes all relate to personal goings on, and nothing like Watergate. Republicans, such as yourself, can't get over Clinton and hate him without really knowing why.

His major crime is he stopped the conservative revolution of the 1990s, outsmarted and outpoliticked republicans at every turn, stopped the insane drive to stack the courts with conservative idealogues, managed to balance budgets, be president at a time of wall street growth, and the people liked him despite his not adhering to the narrow terms of morals or values that republicans want everyone (else) to live by.

He was a great President because he outmaneuvered Newt Gingrich, and it was the crusade against Clinton that led to the end of Gingrich. The entire world owes Clinton a debt that can never be paid for that alone.

Now if you want to look at crooks, try looking at Jr Bush, and his lying to start a war, the way he stopped the justice dept from investigating Ken Lay, and how he has managed to send billions to Dick Cheney's pals. It seems inconceivable that the justice dept is going after Martha Stewart for her $250,000 move, but sees nothing wrong with the millions upon millions Mr Lay and Enron stole.



It is the same kind of hatred that was directed at Nixon for many years, so it is quite comparable.

Had Clinton came clean and Nixon too, there would not have been all of this impeachment nonsense.

Yes, Clinton sure outsmarted those Republicans, that is why they took control of both houses in 1994 and except for the brief hiccup in 2001, both the Senate and the House. That is the Clinton legacy. Now you have Frist in charge with Santorum (who is even more a foe than Gingrich) in the Senate and Dennis Haslett(I think) in the House. The Democrat party took additional losses during the 2002 election, so they look to be more the minority party as the Republicans were prior to 1994. Yeah, Clinton gave the Republicans Congress. Nor could he overtake it in 1996.

Again, there is no Jr. Bush. I do agree with the thing on Martha Stewart, whose crimes seem pretty obvious. I would very much like to see Lay and his bunch get charged as well. Or course, I have to remind you that Enron did a lot of donating to the Clinton campaign in 1996.
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"If we lose a hundred troops a week, then Dean will be our next Prez." Jack V, avid Dean supporter with no concern for the troops.

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#397834 - 11/27/03 12:48 AM Re: 40 years ago, JFK was murdered.
Samuel Catalino Offline
Member

Registered: 04/04/99
Posts: 4447
Quote:
Originally posted by Korvac:
Republicans will never get over the fact that the American people didn't give two craps over, as Chris Rock put it 'A man lying about receiving a blowjob.'

The guy presided over the longest period of sustained economic growth in history, improved America's standing worldwide and worked decisivly against Al Qaida and terrorism in general. Then Bush came in and completely ignored all the Clinton White House's warnings about bin Laden and Al Qaida and won military engagements decisively, initially, in both Afghanistan and Iraq with a military whose structure Clinton oversaw for eight years.

He wasn't a Liberal. He was, at best, a moderate, but even that is too much for the Far Right who really do believe the un-medicated ravings of Anne Coulter when she screeches that everyone who doesn't think exactly as they do is a traitor.



Clinton lied to a jury about it. Clinton also lied to the American people about it on live television, wagging his finger at the camera. I must also remind you that the first article of impeachment against Nixon was lying to the American people. He also lost his lawyer's license over it. If Clinton had told the truth, people would have been shocked, but there sure as hell would not have been any impeachment proceedings against him.

Well, the WTC had it's first attempt, then Clinton had Bin Laden on a silver platter than failed to get him. Clinton sure as hell did not win in Mogadishu, which was a bloody mess. Also no retribution on the attack on the USS Cole just emboldened the terrorists and it came to roost on 9/11. Of course, if we had not gotten involved in the Desert Shield/Storm instituted by GHW Bush, we might have avoided all of this.
And you are right. Clinton presided over it, he did not do anything that made it so.

If Clinton is a moderate, so is the current occupant of the Oval Office. I mock both Coulter and More's ravings as I do Drudge and Franken.
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"If we lose a hundred troops a week, then Dean will be our next Prez." Jack V, avid Dean supporter with no concern for the troops.

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