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#401014 - 02/18/04 10:45 PM The A-Rod Trade
Adam F Offline
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Registered: 12/07/02
Posts: 213
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
As a Red Sox fan, one side of me, the bitter resentful side, regards this as yet more proof of Yankee Evil, of their infinitely corrupting role as the Microsoft of baseball, swallowing everything good and pure into their gaping Yankee maw of Mammon, god of Filthy Lucre and Wealth.

Ahem...BUT, the other, more rational side, is just glad that the greatest player in baseball is going to play for a real team instead of wasting away in Texas. I can't wait to see him at Yankee stadium. For me, the only other player that, for sheer athleticism and form, is as much fun to watch is Ichiro. Collectively, however, my team is still the Red Sox. And, anyway, once again, the Sox have only themselves to blame for their botched, ill-conceived attempt at acquiring A-Rod earlier. You don't have to be Freud to see that the Sox are secretly in love with their Loser status. How else to explain the catastrophe, all of their own making, of that last post-season game? Witnessing that game and that entire series--the ludicrous Pedro/Don Zimmer incident, the incomprehensible decision to keep Pedro in when it was clear he was breaking down, everything--was to witness a team collectively experiencing a nervous breakdown. The were on the brink of IT, the holy grail, and it was too much for them. They're like any deppressive who's secretly afraid of success but blames his failures on being cursed. So enough with all these bad-faith articles I've been reading in Boston papers, apropos the A-Rod-to-NY-trade, bemoaning their fate as curse-stricken losers, always second to the Yankee juggernaut.

(That said, the Red Sox will go all the way next year. And fuck anyone who thinks different!)

--

On a distantly related topic, here's a fantastic article, the best I've ever read, on the current Science vs. Mysticism debate going on amongst baseball fanatics, especially vis a vis the new managerial "science" that has Billy Beane as it's most famous convert and OBP as its Holy Statistic. The article is a review of a book by the late anthropologist and Red Sox fanatic Stephen Jay Gould, who as much as he tried to embrace the notion of reducing baseball to a science, couldn't resist seeing it as something mystical and beyond stats. It shows that pointyheaded baseball theories like "Sabermetrics" can bring real advantages to regular season play, while it can also bring, for precisely the same reasons, disadvantages to post-season play, as the A's have proven. The Red Sox are increasingly putting all their eggs in the science basket--huge mistake, in my opinion. The article also nicely debunks the notion of the Curse...

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v26/n04/runc01_.html

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#401015 - 02/19/04 03:01 AM Re: The A-Rod Trade
Alistair Pudding Offline
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Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 512
Loc: Stoke Poges, Bucks, U.K.
"A-Rod".

Is there a gay-er sport than baseball? Unless, of course, it's watching baseball.

I know there's a race car driver named Dick Trickles, but still...

Good deal for both teams. Texas saves some dough from the original asinine contract and gets a highly comparable player in return with the added bonus of no prima donna-isms (he's not going to ask them to move the outfield like A-Clod did in Seattle). Meanwhile New York gets another celebrity with which to sell thousands of dollars worth of facsimile uniforms. Everybody wins!

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#401016 - 02/19/04 08:11 AM Re: The A-Rod Trade
Finar Offline
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Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 600
Loc: Boston Ma
For people in Boston and NY this is great news because it continues to stir the pot that is the Baseball NY-Boston rivalry.

But this is why Football is king because only a select few teams can hopefully maybe see post season play in baseball where 75% of teams can hope for post season play in football.
Much more or a balance and a premium put on a front office in Football. In Baseball got the money ??? then buy yourself into contention every year.
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#401017 - 02/19/04 08:17 AM Re: The A-Rod Trade
B. Michael White Offline
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Registered: 09/25/01
Posts: 2123
Loc: Nowhere
Absolutely Finar. Football has become the new national passtime over baseball. All baseball is, is a spending war between old rich guys. I used to love the game as a kid. Couldnt give two shits about it now. And A-Rod? Is this the evolution of Names were seeing here? Should I start calling myself B-WHite? Eh...maybe not, some might think that I was being racist.


Baseball and basketball suck.
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#401018 - 02/19/04 12:58 PM Re: The A-Rod Trade
Finar Offline
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Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 600
Loc: Boston Ma
And here's the ultimate kicker to me GL

Nothing says Old Rich Guys Network like The National Football League.

These Captains of Industry these Strike Busting Old Rich Guys have learned learn to live together to make the NFL the strongest league in the world.
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#401019 - 02/19/04 03:12 PM Re: The A-Rod Trade
Kenneth Graves Offline
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Registered: 07/06/01
Posts: 414
Loc: Boston, MA, USA
Salary caps work. By all means, allow free agency within the salary cap, but there has to be some mechanism to keep the teams on something close to a level playing field. If that places a marginal restriction on the superstar's salaries, too bad.

Meanwhile, we're stuck with the perennial question of whether Pedro's arm will last the season...

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#401020 - 02/19/04 04:28 PM Re: The A-Rod Trade
Adam F Offline
Member

Registered: 12/07/02
Posts: 213
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
So baseball is "gay" now. Alright, I see where this is going. I'll just make it easy for the football meatheads and provide a series of replies with a helpful topic index at the top. They can just pick the one they want and use it.

1)"Baseball Is Faggy":

Hey baseball bitch, you think you can handle hardcore NFL machismo? Don't make me laugh, bitch. I wipe my ass with your Jeters, your A-Rods, then, for fun, skull-fuck Ted Williams' cryogenicaly frozen head. I don't see no pain in baseball, bitch. Know what happens to fullbacks when they retire? There ain't no faggy Jimmy Fund or endorsements. No, they're so fuckin' brain damaged that they eat their dinner through a straw and wear diapers. FUCKING HARDCORE.

2)"Baseball Fans are Faggy"

Hey baseball bitch, I see you there with your fuckin' celery sticks and diet beer. What do you weigh, 140 pounds? Fuck that, I weigh 350 pounds and drink Pabst Blue Ribbon for breakfast. Ain't no fucking around in football, bitch. I live on the edge, pussy-boy. I'm so pumped full of steroids that I haven't gotten it up in 5 years and have scary acne. So what's up bitch, you want some of this?

3)"Intellectualizing Sports Is Faggy":

Hey bright-boy, hey sociology-boy, you proposing that the recent increase in football popularity is linked to the newly aggressive, testosterone-fueled U.S. foreign policy? Hey guess what, I'm proposing a link between my foot and your ass, bitch. Take you down like a Deep Earth Penetrator missile, bright-boy. I'm in the fucking ZONE, pussy-man, like Dubya in the Texas National Guard fightin' the Communist menace. You say Dubya's got the same kitschy, over-the-top machismo that you got in football? I say I'll fuck your "over-the-top" ass, bitch.

4) "Baseball Is All About Money, Football Isn't"

Hey bitch, A-Rod gets a quarter of a billion dollars. Know what Chad Pennington gets? A fuckin' cubicle at the YMCA. Ain't no room for faggy money in this game. This ain't no House That Ruth Built. More like The House My Foot In Your Ass Built, bitch.

--

On Pedro...I'm stil pissed at him for what happened in the post-season.

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#401021 - 02/19/04 04:48 PM Re: The A-Rod Trade
Brent Grenier Offline
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Registered: 12/14/01
Posts: 2381
Baseball desperately needs a salary cap, or fans need to wake up and stop going to games before paying 75-300 a ticket. What a bunch of freakin nonsense.

Quote:
4) "Baseball Is All About Money, Football Isn't"


Baseball is a hell of a lot more about money than football. If you can tell me how Mr. Rodguiguez (Sp)is worth $14,000 per inning, I'll eat shit.

Actors are just as bad. How in the freakin hell any cast member of Friends' is worth $1M per episode is beyond me. $14,000 per inning is worse, but you get the point.

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#401022 - 02/19/04 05:14 PM Re: The A-Rod Trade
Shoegaze99 Offline
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Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 5325
Loc: Not Applicable, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Brent Grenier:
Baseball is a hell of a lot more about money than football. If you can tell me how Mr. Rodguiguez (Sp)is worth $14,000 per inning, I'll eat shit.

At that rate, Alex Rodriguez makes $126,000 per nine-inning game.

At $25.20 a ticket, ARod need only be responsible for an increase of about 5,000 fans per game, or 405,000 over the course of 81 home games, for the team to break even strictly through ticket sales. Such an increase is not unreasonable. The Mariners, for instance, went from 19,718 per game in 1994 to 22,665 in 1995 to 33,837 in 1996 to 39,410 in 1997. In just a few years a 30,000-per-game increase, thanks to the emergence of Griffey as a bona fide star and the then newbie Alex Rodriguez.

When a team is a winner - and ARod can certainly put a team over the hump, assuming it isn't fatally flawed like Texas was - fans turn out. Those same Mariners jumped by 8,000 fans per game from 2000 to 2001, thanks to their winning ways. Even the lowly Twins saw 12,355 per game in 2000, or just over 1 million total, jump to 22,287, or 1.78 million, the following year. And they kept going up in 2002 and 2003.

So an increase of 405,000 fans over the course of a year is clearly not unreasonable Ė and thatís all thatís needed to break even on regular season ticket sales alone. None of those numbers account for food and drinks at the ballpark, parking, the spike in broadcast prices such A-list talent can draw, and the loads and loads and loads of merchandise the man sells.

As long as his presence makes his employers money, his salary is worth paying. I think it's an absurd salary, without question, but realistically speaking it is what it is. The old ďteachers should get paid more!Ē argument sounds great in spirit Ė I agree in spirit, too Ė but it also ignores the business realities behind why these people get paid the way they do. They get paid the way they do because they can make their employers money. When Tom Cruise stops drawing the crowds, heíll also stop getting $20 million per film. Itís that simple.
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#401023 - 02/19/04 05:45 PM Re: The A-Rod Trade
Adam F Offline
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Registered: 12/07/02
Posts: 213
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Agreed, Rodriguez's salary is ludicrous. But it's still a a drop in the bucket of the worldwide Yankee franchise (a franchise that will likely reach critical mass at some point in the future) which is why they stand to make money on the deal.

An above poster claimed that baseball was just about old rich guys, as though football weren't. There is very little in this society that, at bottom, isn't about old rich white guys. That was the point of that little joke.

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#401024 - 02/20/04 01:50 PM Re: The A-Rod Trade
smackroscoe Offline
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Registered: 01/04/03
Posts: 1458
Loc: New York City
Y'know what's funny about Boston is their sense of entitlement to A-Rod. Why is Boston more deserving of A-Rod than the Yanks? Because, the Yanks are perennial winners and they're not? Is losing to be rewarded now? Bah, go to the draft for that kind of charity.

The Yanks dont need charity from anybody. When a bold move is called for King George doesnt blink nor back down. And if it blows up in their faces, (Jeff Weaver)they make another move, bolder than the last. They re-load.

Boston had the A-Rod deal in the palm of their hand, what happend? Just open the wallet and land the best player in baseball(possibly ever). But at that crucial moment, Boston management came down with a case of testicular atrophy.

Getting A-Rod is the ballsiest move of all, the sort of move that Boston has no stomach for. Thatís why Boston is what it is. Itís why the Yankees just keep winning.

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#401025 - 02/20/04 04:04 PM Re: The A-Rod Trade
Brent Grenier Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/01
Posts: 2381
Quote:
At that rate, Alex Rodriguez makes $126,000 per nine-inning game.


Wow. I wish I could make $126,000 for approximately 3 hours of work.

But, seriously, that's just one player. None of your figures count the other eight of the field.

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#401026 - 02/20/04 04:23 PM Re: The A-Rod Trade
Finar Offline
Member

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 600
Loc: Boston Ma
With All due respect "Smack" it's easy to re-load as you say when you've invented the money tree.

I'm reading all the papers where does this entitlement by the Sox come from ???

Poor Derek he'd better not make two errors in a game....

But then again Derek doesn't want to move to 3rd or 2nd because he wants to go into the Hall of Fame as a shortstop. laugh

I can't wait for the season to start
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#401027 - 02/20/04 04:58 PM Re: The A-Rod Trade
kingtut Offline
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Registered: 04/16/02
Posts: 1349
Loc: CS, CO
Quote:
Originally posted by Finar:
For people in Boston and NY this is great news because it continues to stir the pot that is the Baseball NY-Boston rivalry.

But this is why Football is king because only a select few teams can hopefully maybe see post season play in baseball where 75% of teams can hope for post season play in football.
Much more or a balance and a premium put on a front office in Football. In Baseball got the money ??? then buy yourself into contention every year.



Wrong. Last two World Series winners were small market teams that drafted well and WEREN'T favorites at the beginning of the season. Anybody can make the playoffs in baseball. No one can buy a championship, we see it every year.
The Cubs have homegrown talent, thats why theyre a contender. Sometimes a team needs a big piece to put them over the top. Last year it was Pudge for the Marlins. This year it might be Maddux for the Cubs.

Think before you post stupid shit.
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#401028 - 02/20/04 07:34 PM Re: The A-Rod Trade
Finar Offline
Member

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 600
Loc: Boston Ma
Quote:
Originally posted by kingtut:



Wrong. Last two World Series winners were small market teams that drafted well and WEREN'T favorites at the beginning of the season. Anybody can make the playoffs in baseball. No one can buy a championship, we see it every year.
The Cubs have homegrown talent, thats why theyre a contender. Sometimes a team needs a big piece to put them over the top. Last year it was Pudge for the Marlins. This year it might be Maddux for the Cubs.

Think before you post stupid shit.


Dear Kingtit

While I can't disagree that the Marlin won last year let's hear it for the small market team I ask you to actually iuse your eyes and read what I said.

I said
But this is why Football is king because only a select few teams can hopefully maybe see post season play in baseball where 75% of teams can hope for post season play in football.
Much more or a balance and a premium put on a front office in Football. In Baseball got the money ??? then buy yourself into contention every year.

In effect what I'm saying here is about 75% of football teams have an actual chance at postseason play can the same be said for the teams in Toronto, Baltimore, Tampa Bay, Chicago (White Sox), Cleveland, Kanas City, Texas, Anehiem, Philadelphia, Montreal, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati,Milwaukee,Colorado,San Diego ???

I think not 95% of the following teams should be elimited by May 30th.

Sad isn't it Kingtit ?

So in closing Kingtit nice try but no soup for you.
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#401029 - 02/20/04 08:10 PM Re: The A-Rod Trade
Adam F Offline
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Registered: 12/07/02
Posts: 213
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
I'd like to refute Finar but I actually haven't the slightest idea what he's saying. Please try to write in complete sentences.

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#401030 - 02/20/04 08:40 PM Re: The A-Rod Trade
Shoegaze99 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 5325
Loc: Not Applicable, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Brent Grenier:
Wow. I wish I could make $126,000 for approximately 3 hours of work.

Earn your employer more than that for three hours and I bet you might. And if you did draw in more revenue than the expenses your salary incurred ... itíd be worth it, wouldnít it?
Quote:
But, seriously, that's just one player. None of your figures count the other eight of the field.

Yes, they do. Or more accurately, they don't need to because we're only dealing with the unusual nature of ARod's salary. It is not, as we well know, the norm.

Alex Rodriguez and his salary is an anomaly, and if you're not the Montreal Expos, 5,000 fans per game is absurdly low (I live near a low-A ball team that draws more by some 1,500 a game). He will invariably be the highest paid player on any team, Yankees included, which means my numbers instantly plummet for all other players. Do the math. If you bring him to a market where he can create a 5,000-per-game boost in fans Ė which I have displayed is not unreasonable Ė he pays for himself. The trick is to ensure you retain the fans and that you don't spend too much elsewhere. Considering that in the case of a trade, which is exactly the case here, those numbers are lower since his big salary is somewhat offset by the salary he replaces, the boost needed is even smaller. (Texas absorbed it all signed they signed him outright. ARod's salary replaces Alfonso Soriano's on the Yankees' payroll, which offsets it some).

We talked 5,000 per game. If the other eight players on the field made Arodís salary, know what the math is? 40,000 fans per game. Hardly unreasonable. 'Course, a team is more than 9 players, so the rest of the staff would have to make next to nothing. But once again, Arodís salary is an anomaly, which is how we're dealing with it. How much must a team's draw increase about its norm to deal with his salary? That was the question I dealt with. The out-of-this-world figure his salary is, it very well may be worth every penny based on dollar numbers alone.

Believe me, I don't support the notion that the guy gets paid that much. I think it's absurd, and wrote a column about it when the contract was first signed. I don't think it established a good standard. By by the numbers, I can see how a team could justify it for the (second) best player in the game.
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#401031 - 02/21/04 12:56 AM Re: The A-Rod Trade
kingtut Offline
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Registered: 04/16/02
Posts: 1349
Loc: CS, CO
Quote:
Originally posted by Finar:


...teams in Toronto, Baltimore, Tampa Bay, Chicago (White Sox), Cleveland, Kanas City, Texas, Anehiem, Philadelphia, Montreal, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati,Milwaukee,Colorado,San Diego ???

I think not 95% of the following teams should be elimited by May 30th.



Are you kidding? You have to be or you haven't watched baseball in a decade. Let's go through this list:

Toronto: Was in the Playoff hunt near the end. Blew it. But could have made a run.

Baltimore: Were very good for a while, then really bad, now getting good again.

White Sox: A few games out of the playoffs in the weak AL Central. They were in first in September. REALLY close with Colon pitching and Frank Thomas tearing it up.

Cleveland was a powerhouse in the 90s. No clue what youre talking about.

KC: Up there with the Sox right up to the end last year.

Texas: Screwed themselves by overpaying A-Rod. Dont deserve the playoffs.

Anaheim: Just won the World Series two years ago! Moron.

Philly: It went up to the last 5 games of the season and they almost beat out the World Series winning Marlins for the Wold Card.

The rest of the teams are pathetic but wait 5 years, I bet most will have quality players and make a run.

Youve proved your baseball ignorance. Please give it a rest.
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#401032 - 02/21/04 09:40 AM Re: The A-Rod Trade
Shoegaze99 Offline
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Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 5325
Loc: Not Applicable, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by kingtut:
Philly: It went up to the last 5 games of the season and they almost beat out the World Series winning Marlins for the Wold Card.

And in the minds of many, these guys are the favorite in the NJ East this year.
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#401033 - 02/21/04 10:23 AM Re: The A-Rod Trade
Finar Offline
Member

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 600
Loc: Boston Ma
Quote:
Originally posted by kingtut:


Are you kidding? You have to be or you haven't watched baseball in a decade. Let's go through this list:

Toronto: Was in the Playoff hunt near the end. Blew it. But could have made a run.

Baltimore: Were very good for a while, then really bad, now getting good again.

White Sox: A few games out of the playoffs in the weak AL Central. They were in first in September. REALLY close with Colon pitching and Frank Thomas tearing it up.

Cleveland was a powerhouse in the 90s. No clue what youre talking about.

KC: Up there with the Sox right up to the end last year.

Texas: Screwed themselves by overpaying A-Rod. Dont deserve the playoffs.

Anaheim: Just won the World Series two years ago! Moron.

Philly: It went up to the last 5 games of the season and they almost beat out the World Series winning Marlins for the Wold Card.

The rest of the teams are pathetic but wait 5 years, I bet most will have quality players and make a run.

Youve proved your baseball ignorance. Please give it a rest.


I don't believe I have and I don't appreciate your treatment of me by calling me names it only shows that you're bringing the proverbial Pen Knife to a gun fight Kingtit.

I stand by my statement that more Baseball teams have no hope as opposed to Football teams.

Come on Get a grip Toronto ? Were you actually silly enough to believe they had a chance last year with that pitching staff ????

Kansas City really sealed the deal down at the end of last season huh ? Why was that could it be they were out of money ???

Baltimore getting better ?? I'll give you that point but it's only because they are spending money not because they have superior talent in the front office. You only make my point it's the haves vs the have nots it's not a level playing field.

Look in the mirror youíll see a very naive boy.
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#401034 - 02/21/04 06:33 PM Re: The A-Rod Trade
kingtut Offline
Member

Registered: 04/16/02
Posts: 1349
Loc: CS, CO
Quote:
Originally posted by Finar:


I don't believe I have and I don't appreciate your treatment of me by calling me names it only shows that you're bringing the proverbial Pen Knife to a gun fight Kingtit.

I stand by my statement that more Baseball teams have no hope as opposed to Football teams.

Come on Get a grip Toronto ? Were you actually silly enough to believe they had a chance last year with that pitching staff ????

Kansas City really sealed the deal down at the end of last season huh ? Why was that could it be they were out of money ???

Baltimore getting better ?? I'll give you that point but it's only because they are spending money not because they have superior talent in the front office. You only make my point it's the haves vs the have nots it's not a level playing field.

Look in the mirror youíll see a very naive boy.


I won't call you a baseball moron if you start acting like you have a clue. Toronto had a bad pitching staff? You mean the terrible staff that had the Cy Young winner? Yeah, awful.

KC didn't lose because they had no money, they lost because they couldn't keep it together. They had the best start of any team in the Major Leagues, something like 14 straight wins to start the season. Oh, and might I add that the A's are a small market team that spends very little and makes the playoffs every year.

The Orioles are finally spending money BECAUSE they have superior front office talent. The front office is the one spending the money wisely! They got the AL MVP of 2002. Thats not a good pickup?

And "I don't appreciate your treatment of me by calling me names"? Ohhhh, you mean like calling someone King Tit? Yeah yeah, I gotcha.

"I stand by my statement that more Baseball teams have no hope as opposed to Football teams."

Stand by it all you want, it doesn't make it true.
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#401035 - 02/23/04 12:11 PM Re: The A-Rod Trade
Finar Offline
Member

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 600
Loc: Boston Ma
Quote:
Originally posted by kingtut:
And "I don't appreciate your treatment of me by calling me names"? Ohhhh, you mean like calling someone King Tit? Yeah yeah, I gotcha.


Just remember you started the insult-a-fest

Wonderful points Kingtit and the Yankees outspend everybody. while teams like KC and San Diego and ect. just can't seem to re-load fast enough because of money.

Ohh and how'd that Toronto Pitching Staff do on the days when their Cy-Young award winner wasn't pitching ?
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#401036 - 02/23/04 08:26 PM Re: The A-Rod Trade
kingtut Offline
Member

Registered: 04/16/02
Posts: 1349
Loc: CS, CO
Quote:
Originally posted by Finar:


Just remember you started the insult-a-fest

Wonderful points Kingtit and the Yankees outspend everybody. while teams like KC and San Diego and ect. just can't seem to re-load fast enough because of money.

Ohh and how'd that Toronto Pitching Staff do on the days when their Cy-Young award winner wasn't pitching ?


I'm not gonna get into a "who started it" argument with you but I want to know where you think the insults are. I really don't see where I insulted you. Was it when I called you a baseball moron? Because you really are acting like one so is that an insult? You may be a genius in real life (I doubt it) but on this subject you truly are a moron. Where are these first insults I supposedly threw at you?

And about the Blue Jays, don't forget they also had Delgado, the second best player in the American League last year, to help that terrible pitching staff. So they were such a bad team they had the best pitcher and the second best hitter in the American League.
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#401037 - 02/24/04 09:49 AM Re: The A-Rod Trade
Finar Offline
Member

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 600
Loc: Boston Ma
Quote:
Originally posted by kingtut:


I'm not gonna get into a "who started it" argument with you but I want to know where you think the insults are. I really don't see where I insulted you. Was it when I called you a baseball moron? Because you really are acting like one so is that an insult? You may be a genius in real life (I doubt it) but on this subject you truly are a moron. Where are these first insults I supposedly threw at you?

And about the Blue Jays, don't forget they also had Delgado, the second best player in the American League last year, to help that terrible pitching staff. So they were such a bad team they had the best pitcher and the second best hitter in the American League.


And Toronto still finished out of the money AGAIN.....

Go to the top you started it with your filthy insults.
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#401038 - 02/24/04 12:25 PM Re: The A-Rod Trade
smackroscoe Offline
Member

Registered: 01/04/03
Posts: 1458
Loc: New York City
Posted by Finar,
Quote:
With All due respect "Smack" it's easy to re-load as you say when you've invented the money tree.


Oh? Even Schilling thinks Henry is a hypocrite when he point to the Yankees spending habits
Calling the kettle...red?

I say Boston was frightened by both high payroll/luxury tax, even though their owner, John Henry, has an estimated personal wealth of FIVE Steinbrenner's!!! WTH? Whatta cheap fuck! Yet, they tried to pinch A-Rod out of some money. That financial mistake dealt them a double whammy: A-Rod won't play for Boston and will play for New York.
The curse has been given new life.

As it's been said before, King George wins because he WANTS to win. I have no answer why Boston doesnt want to win. I assure you, it's quite fun.

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#401039 - 02/24/04 12:33 PM Re: The A-Rod Trade
Dan Carroll Offline
Member

Registered: 04/04/02
Posts: 4588
Loc: Chicago, IL
Quote:
Originally posted by Brent Grenier:
If you can tell me how Mr. Rodguiguez (Sp)is worth $14,000 per inning, I'll eat shit.


Because fans are willing to put many more times that much money into the team's pocket. Why should it all go to the manager and the owner?

Shouldn't the people who are actually out there getting the fans to come in and spend that much money get their share?

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#401040 - 02/24/04 04:38 PM Re: The A-Rod Trade
Finar Offline
Member

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 600
Loc: Boston Ma
Quote:
Originally posted by smackroscoe:
Posted by Finar,


Oh? Even Schilling thinks Henry is a hypocrite when he point to the Yankees spending habits
Calling the kettle...red?

I say Boston was frightened by both high payroll/luxury tax, even though their owner, John Henry, has an estimated personal wealth of FIVE Steinbrenner's!!! WTH? Whatta cheap fuck! Yet, they tried to pinch A-Rod out of some money. That financial mistake dealt them a double whammy: A-Rod won't play for Boston and will play for New York.
The curse has been given new life.

As it's been said before, King George wins because he WANTS to win. I have no answer why Boston doesnt want to win. I assure you, it's quite fun.


Smack I agree with you if you're a Yankee fan George is the best thing going if you're a fan of any other team he's the Devil.

I will say this about George in his defense because I admire the guy, years ago he was all for some kind of a cap and told his fellow owners they should have a cap with Mim's and Max's.

Well the owners balked at George and George told them he'd fix them becuase he gets the most revenue so he'd outspend them and he's proceeded to do that for years.

You gotta admire a guy who sticks to his guns.
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Finar
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#401041 - 02/24/04 04:47 PM Re: The A-Rod Trade
kingtut Offline
Member

Registered: 04/16/02
Posts: 1349
Loc: CS, CO
Quote:
Originally posted by Finar:


And Toronto still finished out of the money AGAIN.....

Go to the top you started it with your filthy insults.


Really, where do you see any insults? Please repost them so I can see what you're talking about. I apologize if I insulted you but seriously, WHERE are they?
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#401042 - 02/24/04 04:54 PM Re: The A-Rod Trade
Finar Offline
Member

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 600
Loc: Boston Ma
Quote:
Originally posted by kingtut:


Really, where do you see any insults? Please repost them so I can see what you're talking about. I apologize if I insulted you but seriously, WHERE are they?


Here's a hint you posted some Stupid Shit.
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#401043 - 02/24/04 05:47 PM Re: The A-Rod Trade
kingtut Offline
Member

Registered: 04/16/02
Posts: 1349
Loc: CS, CO
OHHHHH, I see where you're confused (but really, when aren't you confused?). You inserted a comma there. It should read "Think before you post stupid shit." I'm saying the shit you posted was stupid (and it was). You read it as "Think before you post, stupid shit."
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#401044 - 02/25/04 06:07 AM Re: The A-Rod Trade
Paul Herden Offline
Member

Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 1859
Loc: location
The NFL/MLB "all these teams have no chance" comparison is specious. A football season is almost exactly one-tenth as long as a baseball season, 16-162. The math must be adjusted accordingly. All those "almost" teams in the NFL are precisely as close to a playoff berth as a baseball team that finishes 10 or 20 games behind in the standings. No baseball team that starts 2-6 is officially dead in the water for the year.

Competitive balance rock your world? I believe it was 2 seasons ago when every single team in baseball finished with a record above .400, but below .600. This clumping had never occurred before.

Meanwhile, the NFL's television ratings have dropped in 7 of the past 9 seasons (and one of the "up" years was a whopping +0.1). Many observers attribute this downward drift to the random, faceless "spin the wheel" system built into the contracts and salary cap. It's a setup in which successful teams collapse, and doormat teams ascend, with numbing regularity. Which is great for the team that "gets its turn" and its 2-season run. But it's ongoing dominant franchises that sell a sport, and drive its overall popularity. You don't see the Lakers every week on NBC because the president of the network thinks Phil Jackson is a hottie.

Also, before you go celebrating football at baseball's expense, consider the gambling factor. Take away betting, and you'd see just how devoted the "true" fanbase would be for pro football.

It's endlessly astonishing, the way people resent athletes' high salaries. Like anybody ever bought a Yankees ticket because they really wanted to go to the ballpark and see George Steinbrenner own.

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#401045 - 02/25/04 09:14 AM Re: The A-Rod Trade
Finar Offline
Member

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 600
Loc: Boston Ma
Quote:
Originally posted by kingtut:
OHHHHH, I see where you're confused (but really, when aren't you confused?). You inserted a comma there. It should read "Think before you post stupid shit." I'm saying the shit you posted was stupid (and it was). You read it as "Think before you post, stupid shit."


Itís your opinion that my shit is stupid so itís my opinion that it was an attack on my person. There are ways of disagreeing in the real world Kingtit but then again maybe itís me I guess I forget about the witty banter that goes on here, my apologies for being sensitive

I've never said the mass quantities of stuff you post is stupid so I guess we have a difference of opinions I have a point of view that you disagree with and you have no manners or class.

So back to the point how did that Toronto Pitching staff due on those off Cy-Young award winning days ? Could Toronto afford to throw away Raul Mondesi like the Yankees did ? Would something like that happen with a salary cap, you know a level playing field ?
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#401046 - 02/25/04 09:29 PM Re: The A-Rod Trade
kingtut Offline
Member

Registered: 04/16/02
Posts: 1349
Loc: CS, CO
Quote:
Originally posted by Finar:


Itís your opinion that my shit is stupid so itís my opinion that it was an attack on my person.


After seeing your opinions on baseball I'm not sure how much I trust your opinion on anything.

Quote:
I've never said the mass quantities of stuff you post is stupid so I guess we have a difference of opinions I have a point of view that you disagree with and you have no manners or class.


Before, I didn't say the mass quantities of stuff you post is stupid, just your opinions on baseball v football, which are very stupid. Now, though, I see that all your opinions are stupid.

Well, we've worn out this discussion. It was fun (and bizarre) wading through your rambling, barely punctuated run on sentences. There really isn't a reason to continue bickering. I don't want to get into a flame war with you so I'm finished with this topic.
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#401047 - 02/25/04 10:48 PM Re: The A-Rod Trade
Paul Herden Offline
Member

Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 1859
Loc: location
It makes little sense to criticize the Blue Jays, or the salary structure of all major league baseball, for the fact that Toronto only had one Cy Young caliber pitcher on its staff in 2003. Even if you could get away with underpaying them, the most elite pitchers don't tend to clump on one team very often. Not with 80 starters in the AL.

Especially since the Blue Jays just let the inexpensive free agent Estaban Loaiza leave for Chicago in the offseason. Think about it. The 2002 Blue Jays had both the 1st- and 2nd-place pitchers in the 2003 Cy Young balloting. When's the last time the big-money Yankees or Braves or Red Sox or Mets or Dodgers were in that position? (Without doing the research to doublecheck, I believe that Johnson-Schilling were only the second Top 2 Cy Young pairing to be teammates, following the 1974 Dodgers' Mike Marshall & Andy Messersmith.)

The money gap is a big problem, but trying to tack it onto a "how did that Toronto Pitching staff do on those off Cy-Young award winning days?" argument is misguided. The issues are unrelated in a meaningful way. I'm sure the 1910-1925 Washington Senators' W-L record wasn't a thing of beauty on Walter Johnson's off days.

Historically, MLB is in one of its MOST competitive periods as far as multiple teams going far. Of course, a lot of that is due to having 6 more postseason slots. If the Florida Marlins were playing in the 1970s, they'd have no championships.

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