My fellow board posters of all persuasions here is a test for you to take to see if you are an Arnold-style Republican - If you answer yes to one or more of the following then check your voter registration cards and see if you are registered with the correct party.

my fellow Americans, how do you know if you are a Republican?
1) Well, I'll tell you how. If you believe that government should be accountable to the people, not the people to the government, then you are a Republican. (Cheers, applause.)
2) If you believe that a person should be treated as an individual, not as a member of an interest group, then you are a Republican. (Cheers, applause.)
3) If you believe that your family knows how to spend your money better than the government does, then you are a Republican. (Cheers, applause.)
4) If you believe -- if you believe that our educational system should be held accountable for the progress of our children, then you are a Republican. (Cheers, applause.)
5) If you believe -- if you believe that this country, not the United Nations, is the best hope for democracy, then you are a Republican! (Cheers, applause, chants of "USA.")
6) if you believe that we must be fierce and relentless and terminate terrorism, then you are a Republican! (Cheers, applause.)
7) Now, there's another way you can tell you're Republican: your faith in free enterprise, faith in the resourcefulness of the American people, and faith in the U.S. economy.

[img]http://www.pk.edu.pl/rozrywka/galeria/images/fantasy/cthulhu.jpg[/img]

YOU are a Republiccccccaaaanananananan

If you believe gays should be second class citizens, you are a Republican.

If you believe a guy who's daddy got him into the National Guard to avoid Vietnam and went AWOL for a large part of his duty is more heroic than a guy who VOLUNTEERED to go to Vietnam and then CHOSE one of the most dangerous duties once he was there, you are a Republican.

If you believe corporations shouldn't have to meet any environmental, labor or citizenship standards OR pay their fair share of taxes, you are a Republican.

If you believe transfering resources away from the neccesary war on terror to an unnecessary war agianst the guy who threatened W's daddy was a good idea, you are a Republican.

This is fun! Join in folks!

"If you vote Republican does that make you an accomplice to their cimes?" - Matt Groening

You might be a Republican if:
You're for the Death Penalty but Anti-Abortion(Pro-life)

You might be a Republican if:
You've quoted the bible in a discussion about supply side economics.

You might be a Republican if:
You believe in mandatory sentencing, for drug crimes not committed by Rush Limgaugh.

You might be a Republican if:
You don't want to raise taxes on the top two percent, because you think it might be you up there someday, and screw the poor!

You might be a Republican if:
You cut your draft dodging Commander-in-chief slack about his military service, but don't even ask for the slightest bit of proof before believing the worst sort of obvious lies about a democrat.

You might be a Republican if:
You think visits to Mexico give you foreign policy experience.

You might be a Republican if:
You think the media has a liberal bias, when it's owned by handful of companies, all of whom are owned and operated by republican ceo's.

Such angry, hateful responses. It's no wonder you guys can't protest without violence.

Would that be the Kanadian Korvac RepubliKans?

We are talking about the US so please stay on thread.

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v303/gl2899/uncle-zoid1-468.jpg[/img]


"Zoidberg will save you from the Repub-li-cans! Zoidberg! Zoidberg!"

The hate?

That comes from all the talk of the economy turning the corner while we all get outsourced, and underemployed. We can't eat the fish or breathe the air without some sort of adverse affects.

Violence?

Not an answer but, maybe Ken Lay would have thought twice about stealing from the rank and file, if they were allowed to kick his ass. I mean we bombed Iraq and Libya started towing the line right? Fear is a powerful motivator.

Just a thought.

I have often pondered on just how liberals think and how they come about their view points, and then it hit me........


[img]http://img90.exs.cx/img90/4801/lib.jpg[/img]

Oh yeah, take that!

http://billionairesforbush.com/index.php

Boy, political humor just keeps getting funnier and funnier every year.

I I consider myself a conservative, and as long as Karl Rove has any connection to the Republican Party you can be guaranteed of two things:

I will not vote for their Presidential candidate

and

They (and their supporters) are an evil bunch of slimy weasels with their dirty, blood stained hands constantly in the cookie jar.


Why would you want to pledge your allegience to THAT?

Neither party has the market cornered on honesty, integrity or moral values. Both parties are continually allowed to screw the public without fear of repurcussion and until real, meaningful consequences exist to punish those who subvert thier sworn duty as public servants then the public getting screwed will carry on fast and furious by both parties. It's classic misdirection to believe there is any significant differences to republicans or democrats.

Yeah, but at least when a democrat fucks you, he says "I love you".

A Republican won't even give you a reach-around.

And lastly if you believe the Republican party actually stands for all those things, then you are gullible.

How would you know? Did you "read" it somewhere?

he - what would you know, another canadian claiming to be so knowing something about the American dream.

As oppose to, say, an Austrian claiming to know something about the American dream?

Atleast he's lived here for 20 years or more. Know-it-alls from other countries, don't.

Well if you what to compare I will take an Austrian who wanted become an American (and did) over an American who wants to be a Canadian; as all too many indoctrinated fellow Americans seem to be.

What a bunch of Rush induced shit you guys spew.

Sigh.

Every once and a while hate-filled conservative xenophobes latch on to the mistaken idea that only Americans are allowed to comment on American politics.

Here's the thing my logic challenged friend, we all concede that America is the most powerful country in the world - like it or not we are all living in Pax Americana - sans the Pax. I'm from a country right next door. America's politics affect my country directly and indirectly. Bush's policies directly affect me politically, economically and socially.

Bush's party has contributed money, experts and policy 'suggestions' to the Canadian Conservative Party - directly affecting my country. Bush's policies directly affect my country's safety and security.

So tell you what - when America stops trying to change other countries with bombs I'll stop trying to change America with my oh so dangerous and significant posts on a comic book website. Deal?

Who's hateful? You can comment on them but to truly understand them, you have to be an American. It's that simple. Like it or not, that's the truth.

Comparison - a white guy listens to rap music about repression, slavery and injustice. He can sing those tunes, like them and understand them but to him, they're just words. He can't "feel" them like a black person could. That's just the way it is.

That should not always be your defensive mechanism. I do not listen to Rush. He's arrogant, boastful and just plain boring.

He doesn't speak for me so don't judge me based on his views please.

Yes, you can find instances of crime and corruption from members of both parties. Power corrupts, that's just human nature. But if you think the NeoCons are no worse than the other side you truly are an idiot. Can't you scrutinize the Bush administration with the same eyes the Republicans used on Clinton? They spent billions over the course of 6 years and accussed him of everything from murder to corruption and found nothing more than a lie to cover up a personal indescretion, something that had nothing to do with anything they were supposed to investigate, (sorry I lumped the Starr investigation together with the whole "Vast Rightwing Conspiracy" there, but you get the point).

They even eat there own! Not only did Karl Rove and the gang engage in smear tactics like the "Swiftboat Vets," against Gore and others like Max Cleland, but they used them against John McCain. Who is so deperately clinging to the party, trying to be a loyal Republican, his wife is the only one who publically admits how hurtful the attacks on her and her husband were. They used push polls etc., to claim they had a black baby out of wedlock (they apopted) and said that she was a drug addict, when she had only gotten addicted to pain killers after back surgery not unlike Rush Limbaugh. They have even sent Bob Dole on the attack, despite file footage of Dole denouncing Bush and his crew for such tactics.

This current administration has lied about more and been involved in more corrupt practices and politics that any in recent history. With strong ties to all the following:

The Carlyle Group

The Saudi Royal Family
(The day after 9/11 Bush was on the porch at the White House smoking cigars with Prince Bandar, wh he affectionately calls Bandar Bush)

Haliburton

Enron
(Bush loves the nicknames for his close buddies, Corrupt executive Ken Lay's was Kenny Boy)

Taliban
(Fact: The WTC was bombed right AFTER Bush-Taliban oil pipeline talks soured.
The talks soured right AFTER Bush/Big Oil threatened Taliban to take their offer or receive a "carpet of bombs.)

Iraq
(Yes, the WMDs the republicans often point out in horror for Saddam using on his own people were from us for him to use on Iran)

Harken
(1. President George W. Bush did indeed have material non-public knowledge of adverse financial conditions at Harken Energy Co. prior to the sale of his Harken stock and therefore violated 15 U.S.C. § 78u-1 , insider trading of securities based upon material non-public information.
2. The Securities and Exchange Commission was indeed aware of Bush’s insider trading violation and chose to stand down.
3. While serving on the Board of Directors at Harken Energy Company, George W. Bush’s performance, motives and ethics were no different than those of the corporate executives and officers of Enron, Worldcom or any other national corporation being criticized by Bush for doing what he did.
4. The Aloha Petroleum sale was an act of fraud and Bush was in a position to know it and prevent it.
5. George W. Bush sought business dealings with people strongly connected to and involved with BCCI, the empire of fraud and crime.)

Hamid Karzai
(He worked for the American oil company Unocal and is wrapped up in the Bush family history, and is nothing more than a Bush puppet of an administration that claimed to not be about nation building).

.....Yeah.


So what would Canadians not understand about life, liberty and the pursuit of hapiness.


I thought you could be HUMAN and discuss such things.

Well I have listened to him practically every day for the last 6 years, and that is the same type of xenophobic, Alpha America, Neocon superiority that he spews.


All it does is seperates you from other people. Not a good way to go through life.

they would first have to be significant. You are free to comment all you want but wishing that they were doesn't make it so.

Actually, I'd say Arnold knows all about the American dream. Here's an immigrant who came to be an actor and, through hard work (well, relatively speaking here) and determination, succeeded at that choice.

Hell, that's more American than some rich drunk getting jobs through daddy's connections, failing at all of them, getting a figurehead position, and barely becoming the leader of a nation through good friends in high places.

Well, I'm wasn't commenting on the American dream, but the Republican party. Feel free to comment on Canadian politics, since I don't believe that just because you don't live in a place, it doesn't mean that you can't pay attention to the news and come to your own conclusions. Actually during the Canadian election, Canada heard from quite a number of Americans from both the right and left wing trying to encourage Canadians to vote one way or another. Also as Korvac has mentioned a good number of Canadians conservatives politicians are currently attending the RNC, swapping ideas as well as money.

Anyways, I should have went into more detail on why the Republican party doesn't represent those things that Arnold mentioned. Simply one liners don't make much of a political discussion, but it was late and I figured I would post more later. Anyways, it's been my experience is that conservative political parties make lousy conservatives, just as liberal political parties make lousy liberals. An example would be small government which is supposed to be conservative value, but rarely do any conservative politicians actually decrease government. Both conservative politicians and liberal politicians seem to be for more government, just different kinds of government. Another example is the so called fiscal conservatism, which I can't say with a straight face anymore. I think fiscal responsibility is a better term, since it doesn't seem to be something done by many conservative politicians. Most conservative politicians seem to want to increase spending while giving out tax cuts. They don't seem to understand that spending money that they don't have causes large debts and deficits.

Anyways, a lot of the things Arnold mentioned in his speech are not exactly things that the Republican party has a monopoly on. Some things are more in line with the Libertarian party than the Republican party, others the Democrats are just as likely to do and others I don't think either of the two major parties can make claims on. Anyways, I'll go into more detail later point by point when I get the chance.

That is actually a pretty damn good point Brent. Arnold actually is more representative of the aspiration of the American dream than an American born citizen.

Its members or its ideals? There is such a thing as trying to correct your party and the way I see it: the greater number of Arnold-like Republicans that self identify then the power of religion and intolerance is offset. Whether you like Clinton are not you have to admit he was a check on the extreme of his party by letting moderate Dems know that they still have a home and that only they could fix it. Unlike you Canadians third parties aren't as viable here as I am sure you know so fixing the way to go.

It should give Dems pause, if they can shake themselves out of the notion republicans are zombie Rush dittoheads, to see that given a choice between what is on offer that Bush, as imperfect as he is, is the choice of people like Arnold over what Kerry represents. That is why some find it funny that people who get to call themselves progressive are backing Kerry.

Hey, I agree with you. I just find it funny that a thread that starts by praising a foreigner for his opinions on America now finds the thread-starter telling a foreigner their opinions on America don't matter because they're a foreigner.

..and when is a foreigner not a foreigner? when they become a US citizen. I see your sense of irony is as defective as your politics M. Your cloak of diversity and tolerance is slipping.

Give me a fucking break.....


Lets all bow to your superior sense of irony and superb taste in "politics"


lighten up buddy.

EDIT: Oh, but your point about people calling themselves "Progressive" and yet still supporting Kerry was spot on.

We can trot out the fuck-upidness of every party and every politician. It is always a choice of the lesser of two evils because the poor bastards working at 7-11 and McDonalds are held to a higher standard of competancy and honesty than any/all politicians. When a human being has no fear of consequense for it's actions you're gonna get shitty results- republican or democrat won't figure into anything but the details. Those details exist in every elected official but the end result is going to be fucked up either way. Troting out the details without refuting my premise

Sums it up pretty well.

Gotten into one to many bullshit semantic arguments on this forum to hunker down for one when I point out something that makes me chuckle.

So, there's this hurricane that\'s about to hit Florida . It's supposed to be really bad, I guess.

My sister lives in Florida. I think I should call her.

Because Arnold isn't the one running for President, the guy who's in the back pocket of the extreme Christian right is. (An attorney General who has taxpayers pay to cover up naked statues? yeah, that's sane.) I'm aware that there are reasonable moderate Republicans, but their party has been hijacked by a bunch of religious ideological crackpots. (Barry Goldwater must be spinning in his grave.)

Arnold is supporting Bush because it's necessary for his currency in the party. His relationship with GW has not been all that great and he has been friendly with Kerry.

Re: Kerry –

Weeding out all the vague patriotic rhetoric for what it is, here’s what I know: I know that right now I’m paying almost half a GRAND for my health insurance per month, and it just keeps going up. I know that if Bush is re-elected, he has four more years to “crack down” on abortion rights (I’d like to be able to fuck my girlfriend without accidentally getting stuck with a kid), and maintain tax cuts for the wealthy when I, and those with less than me, could use them more.

As far as who’s better “equipped” to fight the war on terror and “keep America safe,” I don’t know. Neither guy strikes me as exceptionally trustworthy. Bush is bolder, Kerry has more foresight. I lean towards foresight being the more valuable quality. To me, bravado doesn’t carry all that far, and that’s the only credential I see Bush as having as a war-time leader.

So I see no reason not to let Kerry take a crack at it for a few years. I’m sure either man will do their very best to prevent, and safeguard against, further terrorist attacks.

And I find the idea that Kerry cares less about the troops absurd, since, yes – he has known war firsthand. I really don’t care about all the details. He went and fought. Bush spent a couple weeks (over the course of years) puttering around with jets and wasn’t there when he wasn’t required to be. I don’t think that’s a really bad thing, but, come on.

I’d like a little more clarification on some of his votes in the Senate, but it seems to me a ton of context is missing insofar as the Bush administration’s attacks on it go. I’m not sure it matters much anyway. Bush flip-flops on everything. Sometimes people, you know, learn or grow, and/or alter past positions based on a present and more applicable context. Nothing wrong with that.

(Shrug.) So, those are the fundamental reasons I’m voting Kerry. I don’t care whose wife delivers a better speech or who has the bigger dick.

K

According to some analysis he had more to lose in his effectiveness in Calif. than gain. It is not like he is going to be running for President or something.

I sometimes think that the only thing scarier to liberal democrats than the Christian right agenda is a party that would be and reflect a free market, property rights and self reliance as a true and diverse majority of Americans.

----

PS madge

I would hope that you would reconsider - and since you are taking the "what is in it for me" tack I will answer as cynically as I can muster.

Right now I’m paying almost half a GRAND for my health insurance per month, and it just keeps going up..

Niether party is any less beholden to insurance companies and that goes for both candidates - so you will likely continue to pay through the nose either way

I know that if Bush is re-elected, he has four more years to “crack down” on abortion rights (I’d like to be able to fuck my girlfriend without accidentally getting stuck with a kid

If abortion were made illegal tomorrow wouldn't your risks be the same given that abortion and contraception are not the same thing.

and maintain tax cuts for the wealthy when I, and those with less than me, could use them more.

I could use them more as well but I am not likely to get it with Kerry and the risk of them going up is greater with him.

As far as who’s better “equipped” to fight the war on terror and “keep America safe,” I don’t know. Bush is bolder, Kerry has more foresight.

I don't see any foresight on the Kerry side - I am curious as to why you do? It also seems more than bold it is the difference between offence and defense.

I also think more is at stake than "I’m sure either man will do their very best to prevent, and safeguard against, further terrorist attacks." I am pretty sure it's true that the course of US history is a stake and that should matter to you for very practical reasons. It is not like we are going to get a "do over" after four years.

I have seen my tax burden go up mainly due to the fact that taxes at the state level have been raised due to the diminishing payrolls in my state.

I have seen my pay cut due to overtime regulations that state that when I am on call during the weekend that it only qualifies as straight time because it is advisory work and I don't actually punch a clock, but log time. Thats real fair when somebody in my office wakes me up at 3 a.m. because one of my drivers is out of money for fuel.

As far as defense goes I have seen good will with other countries, our military resouces AND tax payer dollars squandered on a grudge match that we were mislead into. Meanwhile terrorism is not only flourishing, we're providing the training grounds. I believed that we were right in going into Iraq, I was among those convinced that Saddam was capable of attacking us with WMD and that he could have possibly been working in league with Osama Bin Laden. I WAS WRONG!

I have seen the party of fiscal and personal responsibility become a bunch of Tax cut and spend, finger pointing, responsibility dodging special interest WHORES for the wealthy.

Lets look at my voting record:

1996: Voted for Bob Dole, did not trust Clinton.

2000: Grudgingly voted for George W. Bush even though I KNEW that McCain would have been a better candidate.

1994-2003- Have voted for Republicans for Senate and City council (But have voted for democrats for Clerk of courts, treasurer and Mayor of my city.

So it's not like I am some leftist "hippy".


The simple question is: Is the country better off now then we were 4 years ago?

The simple answer is: No, we are not.

And don't give me crap about Bush keeping us safe from terrorism. Thats like saying he is keeping us safe from an Alien invasion, you ask somebody what the hell are you talking about and they would reply "Well, do you see any alien overlords around?"

And despite all of this, I STILL cannot vote for Kerry.

Personally, I thought it was the influence of Arnold's great friend and mentor, former Nazi Kurt Waldheim, that drove him to the Republican Party.

However, Arnold wasn't saying "this is what we hope the Republican party will stand for or these are our ideas", he was saying "if you believe in this you are a Republican". Yet very few of these things truly stands for the Republican party (notice I say Republican party, not conservatives, which in my eyes is something completely different).



A worthwhile goal, but not something that I see currently in the Republican party.
The Bush administration has hardly been "accountable to the people", which secret energy meetings or the PATRIOT ACT with secret courts. Maybe you can point out something that I missed, but personally I haven't seen anything that the Republicans have done to make the government more accountable to the people for their actions.



Once again, a worthwhile goal, but the Republican party is often pushed one way or another by interest groups and lobby groups such as the religious-right or the NRA. Once again, it's one thing to talk to talk, but something completely different to walk the walk.



If you believe that your family knows how to spend your money better than the government does, then you are a Libertarian. While the Bush administration has given out tax cuts, they have not managed to cut spending, which means it's just future generations that are paying for current government expenses. However, I guess "If you believe that your kids should pay the bill for the current government years down the road, then you are a Republican" doesn't have the same ring to it.



This is hardly a just a Republican value, as who doesn't believe the education system should be held accountable for the progress of the children?



While I do admit that a current version of the Republican party has less trust in the United Nations than the Democratic party, I don't think either major party completely trusts the UN and is willing to let them have the last say in any international matter.



Once again, hardly just a Republican value. Unless I missed somewhere that the Democrats want to support terrorism? Not to mention there's been a lot of criticism over the Republicans ignoring terrorism while they went after Iraq and Saddam. Now Saddam has been captured while Osama bin Laden still runs free. Interesting enough while Saddam has been mentioned quite a bit at the RNC, I don't think that Osama bin Laden's name has not been mentioned and I doubt it will be.



Seems like another way to tell that you are a Libertarian. Of course the Bush administration is very much for free trade... except for softwood trade... and steel... and wheat... and...ah, what the hell, Bush is quite the projectionist! He may preach free trade but then completely ignores free trade agreements when it doesn't suit him. Canada has been trying with no luck to try to get him to honor the North American Free Trade Agreement with no luck. The WTO has ruled against the US in many of these cases (see this link and this link for two examples), but the US continues to ignore these rulings and continues to tack on tariffs. However, I'm not sure if Bush really believes in protectionism or if he's just trying to buy votes from areas that have a lot of these type of industries, or if these industries donate heavily to the Republican party (aka legal bribery).

And that is why I said if you believe the Republican party actually stands for all those things, then you are gullible. Arnold was just throwing out rhetoric that did not resemble anything that the Republican party actually represents in reality.