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#426795 - 05/17/05 04:04 AM Re: Gay Supporters Denied Communion
David Porta Offline
Member

Registered: 06/15/03
Posts: 4823
Quote:
Originally posted by Brian Bell:
You have no idea what Catholic theology has to say on these matters, exactly.
.

I'll take that to mean that you have no specific beef with my explanations of RC doctrine. You can't refute me, because what I wrote is correct.

How it does chap your hide that I am right!

Tsk tsk tsk. Poor boo.

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#426796 - 05/17/05 08:48 AM Re: Gay Supporters Denied Communion
Brian Bell Offline
Member

Registered: 05/10/99
Posts: 298
Loc: U.S.A.
Um, yes, Porta, I have "specific" beefs with your explanations of Catholic doctrine in regards to the matter of homosexual rights and their supporters, and I am refuting the gist of most of your content in regards to these parishners.

PRIMACY OF CONSCIENCE. Got that? That's specific Catholic doctrine and theology. Obviously, you haven't heard of it, because if you did, you'd know what I'm saying. But you don't understand it. It appears you don't understand infallibility either and the difference between that and teachings. You're ignorant, truly ignorant, and it's showing.

These parishners can still be perfectly good Catholics. They just need to find a more welcoming parish and be a little less political at the altar.
_________________________
"I read somewhere that 77 per cent of all the mentally ill live in poverty. Actually, I'm more intrigued by the 23 per cent who are apparently doing quite well for themselves."
-- Jerry Garcia

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#426797 - 05/17/05 12:41 PM Re: Gay Supporters Denied Communion
Dumas Offline
Member

Registered: 07/20/99
Posts: 6777
Loc: Melnibone
Isn't it more than a little unethical to deny people something that is essential for their spiritual well-being over a political difference?

At the first communion, all Jesus said was "Do this is remembrance of me."

Well, he said a lot of other stuff about his death and Judas and the nature of the afterlife... but you get what I mean.

But as far as communion goes, He didn't have much to say beside "Do this in remembrance of me."

He didn't say, for example, that "It's okay to use this as a means of control over your congregation by denying them the right to participate if they do something you don't like."
_________________________
It's probably best to buy name brand razor blades.
-- comedian Todd Barry, on buying razor blades

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#426798 - 05/17/05 01:00 PM Re: Gay Supporters Denied Communion
Paul Herden Offline
Member

Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 1859
Loc: location
Since you're such a fan of Corinthians, Mr. Porta, how about justifying your judgemental viewpoint with the following passage?

12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
13 God will judge those outside.
--1 Corinthians 5

Mommmmmm, when is Final Judgement getting heeeere already? I'm impatient!

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#426799 - 05/17/05 01:12 PM Re: Gay Supporters Denied Communion
Dumas Offline
Member

Registered: 07/20/99
Posts: 6777
Loc: Melnibone
I guess in this case, it depends on what you define as inside the church.

Anyway, stuff like this makes me glad I'm a protestant. My pastor has absolutely no right to deny me communion. The most he can do is make me feel guilty if I need to repent about something first.
_________________________
It's probably best to buy name brand razor blades.
-- comedian Todd Barry, on buying razor blades

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#426800 - 05/17/05 02:12 PM Re: Gay Supporters Denied Communion
David Porta Offline
Member

Registered: 06/15/03
Posts: 4823
Quote:
Originally posted by Dumas:
Anyway, stuff like this makes me glad I'm a protestant. My pastor has absolutely no right to deny me communion.
.

What denomination is that?

Every church has the legal right to withold the eucharist, and may withold at the church's discretion. Who is entrusted with the authority, within the congregation or denomination, may differ, I suppose: board of elders, pastor, etc.

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#426801 - 05/17/05 02:22 PM Re: Gay Supporters Denied Communion
Charles Reece Offline
Member

Registered: 08/18/99
Posts: 10013
Loc: us of fuckin' a
That sounds suspiciously like an authority mediating your supposedly personal relationship with God.
_________________________
The Gospel, wherein much Truth is written.

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#426802 - 05/17/05 02:23 PM Re: Gay Supporters Denied Communion
Dumas Offline
Member

Registered: 07/20/99
Posts: 6777
Loc: Melnibone
I'm non-denominational and my pastor doesn't believe in denying anyone the right to participate.

He just gives a speech first about how you should only take the elements (usually unleavened cracker fragments and watery grape juice) if you are a converted believer and you have prepared your heart by asking for forgiveness for anything going on in your personal life that requires forgiveness.

I'm oversimplifying a little... but if my pastor has the legal right to keep anyone from participating, he certainly doesn't exercise it.
_________________________
It's probably best to buy name brand razor blades.
-- comedian Todd Barry, on buying razor blades

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#426803 - 05/17/05 06:11 PM Re: Gay Supporters Denied Communion
Paul Herden Offline
Member

Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 1859
Loc: location
A sudden vow of silence, Mr. Porta?

Yeah, I didn't think you would want to play dueling Bible quotes. One can use scripture to explicitly prove just about anything that one needs proved, and that's before you start hitting the multiple translations.

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#426804 - 05/17/05 07:00 PM Re: Gay Supporters Denied Communion
Brian Bell Offline
Member

Registered: 05/10/99
Posts: 298
Loc: U.S.A.
Quote:
Originally posted by Dumas:
Isn't it more than a little unethical to deny people something that is essential for their spiritual well-being over a political difference?...
I think so. But, according to the various rules of Catholicism, the priest is allowed to do what he did.

By the same token, it does not make these people he denied Communion to bad Catholics.

Only that priest has "officially" decided they were bad Catholics, no one else has.

Which is why I said, they ought to just find a more gay-friendly or less political parish.

I think, though, they were looking for a political fight, which I think is kind of wrong of them. They were looking to challenge this particular Church. That's really not very nice of them to do.
_________________________
"I read somewhere that 77 per cent of all the mentally ill live in poverty. Actually, I'm more intrigued by the 23 per cent who are apparently doing quite well for themselves."
-- Jerry Garcia

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