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#427540 - 06/11/05 04:04 PM Re: intolerance of Charles Reece
Dumas Offline
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Registered: 07/20/99
Posts: 6777
Loc: Melnibone
Quote:
Originally posted by Charles Reece:
I'm seeing a lot of accusations, but no evidence. So, I'll take your opinion for what it's worth ...
Evidence? It's all around you in this very thread!

Prove me wrong by answering the question in my last post, or by responding to some of the other stuff you deliberately ignored on page four.
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#427541 - 06/11/05 04:25 PM Re: intolerance of Charles Reece
Dumas Offline
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Registered: 07/20/99
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Quote:
Originally posted by Charles Reece:
Funny thing happened to me as I walked to 7-11 a few minutes ago. I live by a Korean Catholic church and one of its members asked me if I was Spanish or "English" so she'd know which version of propaganda to give me. We all look alike to them, I guess. Kind of gives a different spin on the "in the eyes of the Lord" schtick. "Jesus love you," she said. "No thank you, but have a good day," I replied. Otherness in Koreatown.
Okay, here's another piece of evidence straight from the horse's mouth. Even your "humorous" anecdotes are filled with bizarre reasons to condemn Christians.

I'm not certain what obscure point you thought you were making about the pamphlets, but it comes across like more of your typical "right-wing Christians are stupid" crap.

You refused a blessing from somebody who obviously meant well. Yeah, you're a regular Robin Williams. :rolleyes:
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#427542 - 06/11/05 04:49 PM Re: intolerance of Charles Reece
Charles Reece Online   crying
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Registered: 08/18/99
Posts: 10002
Loc: us of fuckin' a
whooboy.

"Prove me wrong by answering the question in my last post, or by responding to some of the other stuff you deliberately ignored on page four."

What did I ignore?

"If you're morally superior to me, I want to know why. Give me at least one good reason why I should want to be more like you instead of just ripping on my beliefs."

hohum,

Because you should be concerned with rational consistency in morality, not faith in an authority. An immediate benefit would be finding yourself actually arguing against another's views, rather than just getting mad.

[hint: Everything following "an immediate benefit" is "one good reason."]
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#427543 - 06/11/05 04:59 PM Re: intolerance of Charles Reece
Charles Reece Online   crying
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Registered: 08/18/99
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Loc: us of fuckin' a
If someone said people are going to die if comics geeks post on a comic book message board about religion, this whole thread is evidence, but that doesn't mean jackshit considering the hypothesis is dumb as all fuck.
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#427544 - 06/11/05 05:19 PM Re: intolerance of Charles Reece
Dumas Offline
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Registered: 07/20/99
Posts: 6777
Loc: Melnibone
What have you ignored? Most of this post, just for example:

Quote:
Originally posted by Dumas:

The article linked to in that thread brings up a whole bunch of related topics about my religion. It makes perfect sense to me to think about those issues in the context of my religion.

It seems to me that once all that doctrinal stuff has been introduced into the discourse, it should be okay to talk about it.

You could have surprised me by talking about what the rest of us were talking about (doctrinal differences)... but instead, you... joined in with Murphy on the standard Comicon "conservative Christians are evil" party line.

Everybody already knows how you feel about "christofascists."

If you're such a freaking genius, you could have proved it by discussing Bible scholarship or the Qumran scrolls or something... or maybe even finally getting around to explaining why you think Calvinists are more "intellectually honest." That, at least, would have been interesting to read.


Instead, you posted stuff like this:

Quote:
Conservative Christians wish to strip people of equal rights and base politics on a myopic view of a religion and often succeed.
and

Quote:
Identifying with the theocrats is your problem, not mine. I hold to the position that this is fundamentally what conservative fundamentalists are about (not that there's much of a point in putting "conservative" in front of "fundamentalists" here). I think a country run according your ideas, or Porta's or even Hamm's would be a bad -- immoral, that is -- place to be, even if I like one of you (hell, Porta might be alright if we were both on acid). If you want to act like a theocrat, I'll be happy to call you one. Now, go forth and sin some more.
Apparently, instead you felt that you had some kind of moral obligation to slam Porta and make a bunch of baseless, slanderous remarks about anyone who reminds you of David Porta.

If you have the moral high ground, prove it. Don't just slam Christians in more or less the same way you usually do.

You didn't offer anything constructive as an alternative to what you don't like [on the "Christian theocrats" thread]. Apparently, I'm just supposed to take your word for it that you're morally superior and more intellectually honest.


At least eldritch11 offers an alternative that he believes to be the right path.

The closest you ever get to that could be summed up as "Tolerate gay people and don't take anybody's freedoms away."

Okay. I think everybody agrees with the second part of that. And if you don't want to take people's freedoms away, then by default (if nothing else) you have to agree with the first part. But what else do you have?

Beside a lot of unsubstantiated claims that the religious right is just itchin' for a chance to oppress you and your godless, girl jeans wearing ways, that is?

You're really quick to condemn the beliefs of others and accuse them of being immoral, but you don't offer anything better as a substitute... so there's not much use in talking to you about this stuff.
I deleted the parts you did address and bolded several paragraphs in the hopes that you might actually read them and respond to them this time.

I also clarified one sentence so you wouldn't waste time splitting hairs about the fact that you finally got around to addressing one of the points I actually made.
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#427545 - 06/11/05 08:24 PM Re: intolerance of Charles Reece
Charles Reece Online   crying
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Registered: 08/18/99
Posts: 10002
Loc: us of fuckin' a
I've already offered an alternative: god and Christianity add nothing to the moral questions, so should be dropped for parsimony. (See numerous references to Plato's critique of morality resting on a god's will.) This, of course, doesn't mean that no particular Christians have added anything to the moral discussion, only that one can just as easily get to the same correct moral views without the added foundational obscurantism of belief in a deity.

A Christian who's a determinist is more consistent than one who's not if he believes that an allknowing, allseeing, allpowerful god created everything. Free will is impossible in such a situation. That, too, has been pointed out again and again by me. Bergson , Teilhard de Chardin , and Hartshorne are more interesting Christians for this reason, conceiving of God as a creative force, rather than as a tinkering, controlling engineer.

The religious right is about power, control and the restriction of others' rights. That much is obvious to everyone but the theocratic sympathizers (who just can't understand the concept of others' rights).

As for particular doctrinal differences, who utlimately cares? They're all wrong. I'm interested in Christianity as long as it states something worth considering despite the religious connotation, not because of it.

That covers it (again).
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#427546 - 06/11/05 10:25 PM Re: intolerance of Charles Reece
Dumas Offline
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Registered: 07/20/99
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Now, was that so fucking hard?

This part, though is the kind of shit I'm talking about:

Quote:
The religious right is about power, control and the restriction of others' rights. That much is obvious to everyone but the theocratic sympathizers (who just can't understand the concept of others' rights).
Sources? Facts? How did you reach this conclusion? Did fifth dimensional imps talk to you through the fillings in your teeth or something? How could you possibly expect anybody other than Cisco Bunny or eldritch11 to take a statement like that at face value?

The insulting part there at the end about sympathizers doesn't exactly help your case. Who would they be, exactly? Me and Porta? If so, bite me.

As I keep having to remind you, I understand the concept of others' rights.

I am, however, convinced that your opinions about me have about as much merit as Cisco Bunny's.

In other words, less than none.
_________________________
It's probably best to buy name brand razor blades.
-- comedian Todd Barry, on buying razor blades

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#427547 - 06/11/05 11:44 PM Re: intolerance of Charles Reece
madget Offline
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Registered: 05/11/01
Posts: 4839
My!

K

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#427548 - 06/12/05 12:35 AM Re: intolerance of Charles Reece
geedis Offline
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Registered: 11/28/00
Posts: 13263
Loc: AZ
Quote:
Originally posted by Cisco Bunny:
A stupid deluded jerk-off who has kicked your ass more times than a dog has fleas!
Nice going admitting to being a stupid deluded jerk-off.

You think you somehow "kicked my ass" because you're deluded.

By all means, keep including me in your misconceptions that I now participate in your little comic nerd ego slapfights. Be sure to zero in on the one typo you find as if it requires a gram of cleverness.
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#427549 - 06/12/05 04:34 AM Re: intolerance of Charles Reece
Charles Reece Online   crying
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Registered: 08/18/99
Posts: 10002
Loc: us of fuckin' a
Present your arguments to me, again, Charles. I'm not going to respond to any of them, again, but just want you to repeat them, again.

Next up: why do you have such stock answers to all these questions I ask (again and again), Charles?

Did we ever learn from Dumas about the Catholic persecution of King James I for daring an English translation of the Bible or are we still waiting?
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