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#431927 - 10/26/05 05:31 AM 2000
Agrasshopperwalksintoabar Offline
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Registered: 07/19/01
Posts: 2795
Loc: Milky Way
They just announced another soldier has been killed in Iraq bringing the total to 2000.

On 'Imus in the Morning' he almost announced it by saying another soldier was killed in Vietnam.

"Where have all the soldiers gone- gone to graveyards everyone. When will they ever learn. When will they ever learn."
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#431928 - 10/26/05 09:05 AM Re: 2000
Paul O'Keefe Offline
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Registered: 03/21/02
Posts: 5308
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
What went faster, the first thousand deaths or the second thousand? I ask not in any grim way, but just to understand if the rate of US soldier killed in action is increasing.
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#431929 - 10/26/05 03:49 PM Re: 2000
The Last Starfighter Offline
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Registered: 06/10/03
Posts: 3211
Loc: WI
Michael Savage says the way we are fightin over there is stupid. When we could just drop a bomb over there and be over with it. Were taking unecessary risks. I remember with the count was 500 about a year and a half ago.
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#431930 - 10/26/05 07:18 PM Re: 2000
X-height Offline
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Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3923
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Quote:
What history, I say, can ever give - for who can know - the mad, determined tussle of the armies, in all their separate large and little squads. Who know the conflict, hand-to-hand, the writhing groups and squads, the cries, the din, the cracking guns and pistols, the distant cannon, the cheers and calls and threats and awful music of the oaths, the indescribable mix - the officers' orders, persuasions, encouragements - the strong shout, "Charge, men, charge", the flash of the naked sword, and rolling flame and smoke? Of scenes like this, I say, who writes the story. Of thousands, north and south, of unwritten heroes, unknown heroisms, incredible, impromptu, first-class desperations - who tells? No formal general's report, nor book in the library, nor column in the paper, embalms the bravest, north or south, east or west. Unnamed, unknown, remain, and still remain, the bravest soldiers. - Walt Whitman
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#431931 - 10/26/05 08:27 PM Re: 2000
B. Michael White Offline
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Registered: 09/25/01
Posts: 2123
Loc: Nowhere
AKA


pfft! 2000? That ain't sheeit!

Leaves of grass my ass!

Walt freakin' Whitman!
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#431932 - 10/26/05 09:26 PM Re: 2000
Sean Murphy Offline
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Registered: 03/30/99
Posts: 1481
Loc: State of Confusion
You do realize, X, that Whitman's piece can easily be taken to extoll the heroism of the Iraqis who felt they were fighting off invaders, right?

No formal general's report, nor book in the library, nor column in the paper, embalms the bravest, north or south, east or west.

And personally, I doubt Whitman would be all that enthusiastic about a war that involved very little armies clashing on the field, but lots and lots of airstrikes on civilian areas. Just my opinion, of course.

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#431933 - 10/27/05 09:45 AM Re: 2000
X-height Offline
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Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3923
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
enthusiastic?

we are talking about Sacrifice, heroisms, first-class desperations ; on either side.

Do we forget our own civil war?

You might as well ask if the South was wrong?
Was the War Wrong?
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"The folly of mistaking a paradox for a discovery, a metaphor for a proof, a torrent of verbiage for a spring of capital truths, and oneself for an oracle, is inborn in us." (Paul Valery)

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#431934 - 10/27/05 12:49 PM Re: 2000
Sean Murphy Offline
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Registered: 03/30/99
Posts: 1481
Loc: State of Confusion
Quote:
Originally posted by X-height:
enthusiastic?

we are talking about Sacrifice, heroisms, first-class desperations ; on either side.

Do we forget our own civil war?

You might as well ask if the South was wrong?
Was the War Wrong?
Man, the pro-war and the pro-Bush people (usually, but not necessarily, the same folks) are starting to get really incoherent as things continue to go bad for their respective causes.


Trying to answer your odd questions:

Yes, Whitman was admiring of the heroism that often occurs in war. I merely point out that there is zero heroism involved in ordering airstrikes on civilian targets, as we do so often in Iraq and most other wars we fight nowadays.

Do we forget the Civil War? I would say that anyone who's enthusiastic about war DOES forget the tragedies and horrors of the Civil War. Maybe the Europeans are much less hawkish is because they remember what it's like to have your country turned into a battlefield.

Was the South wrong? Is that a rhetorical question? Hell, I'd say the South caused a hee of a lot more human suffering than Saddam Hussein ever did.

Was the Civil War wrong? I assume that's the war you're talking about. No, it was necessary. That's one of the things you pro-invasion people seem utterly unable to understand. Most of us who opposed our unprovoked, illegal invasion of Iraq are not pacifists, we just saw that this was an unjust, unnecessary war that would cause more harm than good. Oh, and that it was really about control of oil reserves.

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#431935 - 10/27/05 01:03 PM Re: 2000
Paul Herden Offline
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Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 1859
Loc: location
Wrong? Wrong? No, the Civil War was great. It was a fabulous use of lives and resources. That's what an intelligent, well-governed society is all about: creating the opportunity for desperation sacrifices.

I'm not as eager as you to embrace a quote about how not knowing is the most noble evidence. But in reading some of your arguments on other threads, I can understand its attraction to you.

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#431936 - 10/27/05 01:26 PM Re: 2000
X-height Offline
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Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3923
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Quote:
I merely point out that there is zero heroism involved in ordering airstrikes on civilian targets, as we do so often in Iraq and most other wars we fight nowadays.
I see so that #2000 died of what? air sickness?

"No, it was necessary" - so the south just couldn't have its own little confederation, please.

Apparently you have it all figured out as to what a necessary and unnecessary war is.


Let me ask you this are all divorces necessary?
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"The folly of mistaking a paradox for a discovery, a metaphor for a proof, a torrent of verbiage for a spring of capital truths, and oneself for an oracle, is inborn in us." (Paul Valery)

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