You also have to be careful of nostalgia, here. Even in the "good old days" I remember a lot of late books, inventory stories, reprint books, and guest artists. And many great artists such as Heath, Adams, Weiss, Wrightson, Kaluta, Smith, etc. were "late" with their books, but I did not want them removed from said books. And bear this in mind: editors make the schedules, pick the talent, and tell everyone how important they are. Talk to the editors.

The gigantic, complex, multi-issue epics that always seem to end up where they began, status quo restored, dead brought back to life, is also a dinasaur we could do without.

The problem may be monthly books themselves. The solution may be the road that Mignola, Gianni, Garcia Lopez, and others have taken: special projects and limited series, largely unscheduled. When they are done, they publish.

Steen Kloepfer

This seems to have started a pretty fair discussion. I don't quite understand why Alan Moore's ABC titles started getting picked on, necessarily. It seems to me there are a lot of other books that would rate this kind of ire. But then, people actually LIKE the ABC Books and are waiting for them to show up, as opposed to books like BATTLE CHASERS, which apparently nobody cares about anymore.

Mark Evanier and Jean-Marc Lofficier are, of course, correct in saying that there are any number of reasons why a book could be late, and certainly not all of them can be cast upon a creator (or creators). That's why I said any consequential actions taken by a publisher would have to be decided on a case by case basis, and I'll clarify that it should preferably be decided by a third party arbiter not directly associated with the title in question.

Nat Gertler brought up an interesting and solid point- that of the TPB collections, and how publishers want to have the TPB be by one creative team. I certainly see your angle, there, Nat. It puts the publisher between a rock and a hard place in certain cases as a result. Which is one of the reasons why I've long tauted the Graphic Novel format- they don't need to solicit the book until everything's completed. And if the publisher breaks down the payment schedule to enforce timeliness from the creative team, all the better. (Hey, everybody wants their paycheck.) But that's a topic for a different day, I suppose.

I'll also agree with Nat that lateness sort of has its own penalties. Very true, but it's not merely penalizing the talent in question, but everyone else down the line as well. If it behooves publishers to resolve these problems, and the creator simply cannot / will not oblige, isn't it in the publisher's best interests to cut that creator loose, even if it means the talent moves elsewhere?

But as for Pat O'Neill's comment that the fans & retailers not "giving a rat's ass" about the plight of the talent, I think he is sorely mistaken. When something happens to a talent (injury / illness / personal tragedy) that precludes their ability to complete a work, most fans may be disappointed by the wait, but are generally understanding, from what I've seen.

OTOH, when someone's been out of the hospital for months and given a clean bill of health and is losing even MORE time on their schedule, as it APPEARS to be the case with J. Scott Campbell and DANGER GIRL, then something needs to give. And it should be Scott, not DC/Wildstorm. Just my opinion, I may be totally off base. (Notice I said that's what the situation APPEARS to be. That means I don't have all the facts, and am speculating based on the information I have at hand, which includes notes from a discussion I had with Campbell at SD Con last summer. But that was August, and a lot has changed since then in the business.)

I agree that books should be shipped when solicited to ship (Or within a reasonable time frame of the solicited date of release- a week or two late is not something to complain about; eight months is.). And I wonder how others got the books out on time in the past. How have things become so much slower? I think computer coloring is one aspect that slows the production time significantly, because it takes longer to computer color than to hand color, and longer for the printer to make sure the colors take to the paper correctly and so on. (Just one of the many other aspects that affect timeliness, as Jean-Marc and Mark have meant to allude to, I'm sure).

OTOH, the whole point of the "cog" system in professional comics is that the talent is interchangeable. If a piece isn't working right, you replace it with one that will. Now, some of the stories here about how editors can screw the talent is quite plausible- all the editors are trying to get their buddies work, and that's not always the person best suited for a given task.

We seem to be in the midst of a power struggle in this regard. It's a grey area, to be certain, and there really isn't a clear cut answer to this dilemma. I appreciate the commentary from the professionals- it has been for the most part very thoughtful. I hope it continues.

I honestly do not mean to generalize, hate generalizations, and I apologize in advance if I am guilty of this here.

I think that the lateness of books is just one more symptom of the fact that (many) editors today are promoted fans who have had no real-world publishing experience or training.

(Last year I had to explain to an editor who shall remain nameless -- nice guy -- what a transparency was.)

So lessons learned in the ast have been lost, such as:

Lesson no. 1: inventory. What happened to buying inventory? Every magazine I've ever worked for has inventory.

Lesson no. 2: you solicit and start marketing product only when it's ready or virtually ready to go. Ask anyone in the magazine or book publishing business. LOEG definitely should not have been solicited, marketed and launched when it was.

Lesson no. 3: some talent is slower than other (it can also depend on the project) -- Moebius takes more time to draw a BLUEBERRY than to draw a Moebius-style story. Only an inexperienced editor does not factor this in when he launches a project.

I'm sorry to sound harsh, but an industry (well, more like a cottage industry these days) run by fans for fans can hardly be expected to do things professionally.

JM

I agree with that. Matter of fact, I think way too many editors whine when Joe Schmuck is late with the inks on a book when they should have known that Joe Schmuck is habitually late.

However, I would not assume (a) that Alan Moore chose the artists in question or (b) that it should have been obvious that those artists couldn't maintain a monthly schedule. Even the most reliable artists in the business sometimes have illnesses, family crises, days when something prevents them from drawing, etc.. (And by the way, having worked with Jack Kirby, Sergio Aragones and Dan Spiegle, I have probably worked with the three most reliable artists this industry has ever seen.)

For that matter, I don't think it would even be fair to presume lateness on any book is due to the artists. I've worked on books that were handed in early but then the color separator or printer or someone in production caused undue tardiness.



True...but in the example I cited, the artist said, "I can do the extra project but it may make the other one late" and the publisher said that was fine. In that case, I would say that fault for the lateness was wholly with the publisher.



Yes...and therein lies part of the problem. Publishers these days often solicit books on the presumption that everything will get written and drawn on time. Perhaps they shouldn't, but writers and artists rarely have much say in when their books are scheduled...especially if it's a "hot" book -- one that the publisher is eager to get out for sales reasons.

So they solicit a book by Joe Schmuck and then something happens and Joe is not going to be finished by the time the book will have to go to print to meet its on-sale date. If they bring in Sam Putz to draw the last issue, they're not delivering what they promised in their solicitations. They have to wait for Joe and let the book be late.



I have come to believe that the professionalism of earlier generations is somewhat exaggerated. Yes, you had guys like Kirby and Colan who produced pages like clockwork...but part of that was due to working conditions that no one should ever have had to endure. You know, peons work faster when they're being flogged but that doesn't mean it's a good idea to flog your employees.

And part of the notion that today's professionals aren't as professional stems from the above-described change; that companies are less likely now to stick in a fill-in issue. I mean, Curt Swan was another workhorse but if he was running behind on SUPERMAN, Mort Weisinger didn't hesitate to give the next issue to Al Plastino or Kurt Schaffenberger. Today, with readers following certain creators, and storylines built over a long period, editors are much less likely to juggle around writers and artists.

The answer to late books is very simple, Pat. A company just has to be willing to get work done in advance of its solicitation. If they build in enough "pad" to the schedule, nothing will ever ship late...but realistically, they're not about to do that. It would mean tying up a lot of money in work that won't be published for a long time, and it would mean that if they had a hot item in the pipeline, they couldn't rush it quickly to the marketplace. Ain't gonna happen.

And in the end, the fans will continue to get pissed off (and leave the medium) and stores will continue to suffer as they try to soothe disgruntled customers and try and guess what the interest in any given title is. (Have I underordered? Have I overordered?)

Peachy. Just Peachy.

I am just a lowly fan and reader of comic books (currently) so my opinion may not hold much weight here, but I'll say it anyway.

Lateness, quite frankly, is destroying the comic book industry. Why? Because readers expect a comic to come out on time. Preacher comes out every month on time. Guess what? Preacher is big and has been gaining an audience since the beginning. (It's ending now, so it's losing that audience, but you see my point.) Preacher is out on time every month and very successful.

Image, From what I've seen, is losing readers. Don't even tell me about their personal problems because they've had those since the beginning. (Wetworks, anyone?) Image is one of the big boys and it can't keep a schedule. As far as I know, McFarlane has no major problems, but Spawn is still late. I know Todd doesn't do the book anymore, but does that mean he has to hire people who will be late? More importantly, If Image can't keep a schedule, how is anyone else? This could be why readers are becoming extremely disappointed and are stopping reading comics all together.

Personal problems should not keep a person from at least completing a book. Has Cerebus ever been late? (It could've been, but it hasn't to my knowledge.) I'm sure Dave Sim has gone through some rough times getting that book out.

The fans would have sympathy for creators who can't get their book out with legitimate reasons. Since when does WIZARD, or other fanzines ever print those so the fans know? Never. The last one they did was Portacio and that was only after belittling him.

Another problem: Too little talent working on too many books. Alan Moore can write two to four monthly books. I'll give him the benefit of a doubt. (Rick can tell me if I shouldn't. Examples woule be nice.) However, that's Alan. Whereas Todd has Brian Holquin doing three books and they are late. Consistently late, yes, but late nonetheless. Perhaps, Todd should consider hiring more writers and the books would come out on time. Just a thought.

I started collecting in 1984 with Atart Force. The book was consistently on time. I still read today. Whereas, a young reader picking up Battle Chasers 1, and not being able to find issue 2, finally getting it only to have issue 3 be late, what's going to happen? He'll stop reading.

I love comic books. However, I think the creators, artists, writers, whatever, need to show some responsibility. They need to show they can put out monthly books even if it means hiring guest writers. If they keep going at the rate they are going, comics will fade away.

No, writers and artists should not be punished for being late. Instead, they should just put out a monthly book on time and stop being late. They have a responsibility to fans, retailers, and most importantly themselves.

Oh yeah, one problem with my above comments. Savage Dragon is an Image book that comes out on time all the time. It is one of the lowest selling books. This would completely refute my statements wouldn't it? I guess it is the one exception the proves the rule.

I visit the comic shop weekly because I've also got a jones, but I think we'd be better off if the English comics market wasn't dominated by periodicals. Artists would get advances and produce a small handful (at most) of longer books a year.

How on Earth can we expect new readers to conform to the rather extreme practice of behaving like drug addicts, hungrily needing a fix every thiry days? It's ridiculous.

Besides, very very few truly great pieces of comic book art were ever churned out at a machine-like rate of 25 pages every thirty days, nor have they sold anywhere near the numbers that monthly-oriented companies would even consider. The overwhelmingly vast majority of good comics come out on a schedule that reflects the time and care that went into creating them. And no, Vertigo and ABC are not the best that comics has to offer, though I'm sure their books (and the artists who create them) would be better in a book-oriented market.

I certainly sympathize with retailers who are put in a jam by late-shipping comics. But there's got to be a better way to go about the comics business. Unfortunately that doesn't seem likely in the near future.

Anyhow, that's my two cents. Guess it doesn't have much to do with whether or not to punish slower employees on the comic book assembly line, or how severe the punishment should be.

[This message has been edited by Jamie Salomon (edited 02-26-2000).]

People still read CBG?

Huh.

Louis, if your contention is that every situation must be taken on a case by case basis (which, of course, it must, because, as Mark has pointed out, there are all kinds of reasons people are late, and in today's comics business, in my experience it's often caused as much by editorial as by talent - an editor, say, doesn't send pencilled pages out for scripting until zero hour, then wants the pages in on deadline when deadline is later the same day the pages were sent out; don't think I'm making that up, because there was one situation where that happened to me on a monthly basis - and it's not out of the realm of experience for an editor who has screwed up to loudly proclaim the problems were the fault of the talent when they weren't) then the discussion is rightfully over, because that's your answer: every situation must be taken on a case by case basis. End of story.

Yeah...I think Preacher was late once in the entire run, and it was only pushed back one week. Doesn't Steve Dillon have 5 kids or something like that?

Or, what about Jim Ballent? Personally, I don't much care for his art, but I gotta respect the man for his run on Catwoman. 50+ issues, ON TIME.

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In the name of good customer relations it would certainly behoove publishers to tell the retailers and fans who keep them in business why a book is late.

I'm thinking of the TV series Babylon 5. Fans often had to wait *months* for a handful of new episodes (seasons 3 and 4 come to mind.) But, at least we fans were told why the new episodes were aired so erratically.

Are you listening, comics publishers?
The fans of the show were not made to feel taken for granted.
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And, ugly as it is, there is something we fans can do about really late books. Vote with our dollars.

I've dropped 2 chronically late books out of principle: Daredevil and LOEG. I'll probably get the Daredevil trades, and I *might* get League.

If they can't show up when they are supposed to (and no legit reason for the lateness is given), well then, I can't be bothered to support them.



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Katherine Keller
Staff Writer, Sequential Tart
Blowing a kneecap off the world at:
http://www.sequentialtart.com