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#460118 - 03/19/01 06:51 PM Re: Top comics drop below 100,000
NatGertler Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/99
Posts: 4618
Quote:
And, of course, Nat, your neighborhood is, per force, representative of the nation as a whole.
Gee, Pat, I haven't been trying to build claims about a nation as a whole. You were the one who kept citing my posts, who kept asking me questions and then anticipating the answers, in support of your own series of points... points which the data being discussed did not support.
Quote:
Let me put this again--perhaps you'll get the picture:
Which picture is that? The picture that you're some kind of logic-impaired problem-child who will argue against any facts that don't fit in with your assumptions about the world? Pat, before you try to explain to me what my neigborhoods have been like, and how it fits into wherever-you've-chosen-to-skide-goalposts-this-post, perhaps you should reflect on your failures in the past to explain to everyone that all Internet connections are over phone lines, that you can't have comics on a computer, and things of that nature.
Quote:
Are any of these places you say comics are available in your area--these places within walking distance, close to schools, etc.--are any of them retail environments that kids are likely to enter, let alone be welcomed in, without adult accompaniment?
First, let's notice the sliding goal-posts again; the places in Covina and Pasadena failed to fit his earlier points -- at least, according to the questions he asked -- so here comes a different goal line that must be crossed.

Now let's watch this, boys and girls, as Pat tries to answer his own question without any sign of having been to the places he's talking about!
Quote:
Of the places you cite, the donut shop is (perhaps) the one place that a kid under 12 is likely to visit without an adult.
Hey, look, suddenly it's not folks under 16 anymore! The goal-posts have slid on down to the age of 12! Gee whillikers, what a shocker!
The donut shop in question has pictures of Pokemon and X-Men characters on the door. I haven't hung around it often enough to say what sort of clientelle it actually draws, but it seems to want the kids, and is within 6 blocks of at least 2, I think 3, public schools.
I can tell you about shopping at the supermarket a block away from me in Pasadena; if I would head over there between 3 and 5 o'clock on a weekday, the odds were good that I'd be in line with someone who looked under-12, buying a snack. More of them got their snacks at the adjacent 99 Cent Store, which occasionally had comics as well (although they seemed to run through them fairly quickly.) The supermarket had ride machines out front, gum and sticker machines right inside the front door, then you'd pass by the counter where they sold ice cream and shakes, and then as you'd head in toward the registers there'd be a spin-rack of coloring books and puzzles, and then the magazine rack, much of the bottom half of which was comics. If this store was trying to discourage kids from entering, they would have done better to just leave a trail of cookies running straight in the door.

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#460119 - 03/19/01 09:54 PM Re: Top comics drop below 100,000
brent Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 11
Pat:
"Are any of these places you say comics are available in your area--these places within walking distance, close to schools, etc.--are any of them retail environments that kids are likely to enter, let alone be welcomed in, without adult accompaniment?"

Well, I can't speak for all of America, unlike Pat, but I will talk about the realatively small town of So. Burlington VT. (Pop: roughly 18,000).

So. Burlington high school is close to the University Mall, a place that many kids ages 12-16 hang out. In the mall is a Walenbooks that carries comic books, and a store called Hot Topic that also carries a very limited selection of comic books. The local Hannafords, which is right next to the U Mall, also has comic books on a spinner rack. A Barnes and Noble is located right across the street and carries comics in the magazine section, and a helthy supply of trade paperbacks and graphic novels. A local Grand Union carries a small selection and is close to the Chamberlin school, which is for younger kids. I also know of several kids and teenagers who actually dare to use our public transportation system (a bus) which allows them easy access to all these places. Across the street from GU, is a little store called Gacey's, which also sells comics.

Now, although kids between the ages of 12-16 wouldn't be welcomed in with open arms, they certainly are allowed in without adult supervision. Also, if what I've seen is any indication, than yes, kids will often enter these places just for food alone.

Of course, I live in a weird area.

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#460120 - 03/19/01 11:08 PM Re: Top comics drop below 100,000
Steve Hogan Offline
Member

Registered: 02/27/01
Posts: 5099
Loc: Burlington, VT 05401
Quote:
Originally posted by Brent:
Of course, I live in a weird area.

And how! (Steve lived there as of less than a year ago.)

I live in the city next to Brent and we've got pretty much the same stuff. We have one comic store plus a used book store that stocks alternative comics. (Where I shop mostly.) When I used to manage the local indie record store I stocked some comics, but now I think it's pretty much just James Kochalka titles. I can't think of any shops the kids aren't allowed in around here ...except for the headshops. (I should talk them into carrying old undergrounds.)
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#460121 - 03/20/01 07:03 AM Re: Top comics drop below 100,000
Pat ONeill Offline
Member

Registered: 08/18/99
Posts: 3064
Loc: PA, USA
"Under 16" was cited because 16 is the age--generally--when kids can get drivers' licenses.

But "under 12" is the real crucial "get-started" age for reading comics.

Oh--and if you think all that kid-oriented stuff is in that supermarket to attract unaccompanied kid shoppers, then you know absolutely nothing about grocery marketing techniques.

OTOH, I've worked in grocery stores, I've written about all kinds of general retailing.
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Best, Pat

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#460122 - 03/20/01 11:42 AM Re: Top comics drop below 100,000
NatGertler Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/99
Posts: 4618
Quote:
Oh--and if you think all that kid-oriented stuff is in that supermarket to attract unaccompanied kid shoppers, then you know absolutely nothing about grocery marketing techniques.
And if you think that putting all that in the front of the store is compatible with discouraging kid shoppers, then you don't know kids.
Quote:
OTOH, I've worked in grocery stores, I've written about all kinds of general retailing.
You've also written about comics, yet I've been watching you spew false information about comics for years. I will not assume that you're more competent when it comes to other topics.

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#460123 - 03/20/01 04:17 PM Re: Top comics drop below 100,000
Pat ONeill Offline
Member

Registered: 08/18/99
Posts: 3064
Loc: PA, USA
All that stuff is at the front of the store because it's considered impulse purchase fodder, which is always placed as close to the checkout line as possible. (And because it's also shoplift fodder, so they want it placed where the largest concentration of store employees are, to keep an eye on it.)

Sure, it appeals to kids--but the store is hoping for "Mommy, mommy get that, get that!" and Mommy giving in to shut the kid up; it is not hoping on the kid coming and buying it for himself.

Believe me, Nat, supermarkets do NOT want teens and pre-teens shopping unescorted. This may be an unwarranted attitude, but they are considered potential shoplifters at the worst and loud, noisy, problems for the adult shoppers at the best.
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Best, Pat

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#460124 - 03/20/01 06:03 PM Re: Top comics drop below 100,000
NatGertler Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/99
Posts: 4618
Quote:
Believe me, Nat, supermarkets do NOT want teens and pre-teens shopping unescorted.
Believe me, Pat, when I say that I don't believe you know how every single local supermarket is run. This thread shows you have a pretty poor track record in knowing how things run in my area. I'd have to be rather inattentive to start taking your word for anything.

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#460125 - 03/21/01 07:28 AM Re: Top comics drop below 100,000
Pat ONeill Offline
Member

Registered: 08/18/99
Posts: 3064
Loc: PA, USA
Of course not, Nat. That would mean admitting I know what I'm talking about and you don't.

That couldn't possibly happen, could it?

Final word from me. Go talk to yourself--you're the only person you don't pick fights with anyway.
_________________________
Best, Pat

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#460126 - 03/21/01 08:21 AM Re: Top comics drop below 100,000
brent Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 11
Uh...Nat actually agreed with you on Napster, the Harry Potter debate (You automatically assumed he was against you), and something else that I forget off-hand. It's your own stubborn arrogance that makes you assume he's against you.

Pat, in this case, you don't. Nat isn't talking about a supermarket. While you are quite versed in supermarket retail, you have no idea what it's like to run a small mom and pop store. If you're going to tell us that the same principles apply to both places, well, you'd be wrong. It's the area that you live in that determines what you are going to use to get customers.

While it may be true in your area that pre-teens and teens are not wanted in the stores, that isn't true for every area...particularly areas that are close by schools. I mean, a smart businessman will use anything he can to get business and if that means putting pokemon in the windows and ride machines out front, than so be it. He'll get unattended kid shoppers whose money is just as green as attended kid shoppers.

While placement of said items to disuade shoplifting is true, I'd have to say that you're determination that your reasoning of the kid stuff being there to get mommy to go in with the child is kind of stupid if we're talking kids walking home from school---without mommy. A good businessman will want that business and will put stuff there to attract that business. A simple retail pracitce that I'm sure you know having such a vast knowledge retail.

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#460127 - 03/21/01 10:11 AM Re: Top comics drop below 100,000
Beck Atcha Offline
Member

Registered: 06/20/00
Posts: 1053
This is all well and good, you guys, but we're really getting away from the topic: what constitutes a city block?

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