------------------
-- milo
-------
im the überführer du jour and i fear no comics nerd on this planet or any other

I don't want to cast aspersions on anyone, particularly on someone who doesn't post here and probably won't see this, so I'll try to walk a delicate line clearly.

Dave Sim, through no fault of his own, suffers from at least one form of mental illness. I don't know what his diagnoses are (although I could guess, it wouldn't be appropriate for me to do so), but he's on record about at least one hospitalization and about hearing voices. Not that this excuses anti-social or abusive behaviour, but it does give people a base of reason to undestand where the behaviour and thinking process might come from.

Being mentally ill doesn't mean that a person is either intellectually inferior or morally degraded, it just means that the brain wiring skips a number of synapses and those folks so stricken won't follow the same logic paths that a person without an illness might.

I don't think that this is a reason for excusing any of Dave's behaviours, but at least it makes it a little bit more understandable. Dave's friends should be commended for sticking by him, and those assaulted by him (either directly or indirectly) should be commended for their restraint in dealing with his abuse. This includes Jeff & Vijaya Smith for not bringing libel suits against the guy, Deni Loubert for morally (and otherwise) supporting him as long as she felt she could without being damaged by his abuse and doubtlessly uncounted other people. This includes Colleen, Steve and many others who see, or saw, the positive side of Dave while recognizing the damaging side as well and for trying to hold him to reasonable standards of behaviour.

Anyone who still feels harmed or hurt by Dave or by his attitude should be able to comfort themselves with the fact that Dave doubtless makes himself more miserable than he makes any of the other people who he acts inappropriately towards, if that's any consolation.

I briefly met the man only once but my sense was that there's a charming person inside who's been almost destroyed by the demons that possess him. I hope that he receives appropriate help at some point in his life, but depending on the illness that help may or may not exist. Although I haven't enjoyed the last several years of his book, I think that he's a very talented artist and I think he's made undeniable contributions to the art of pictorial storytelling. I hope someday, somehow, that he's able to bring the same sense of craft to his own life.

-Kelley O'Hearn

[This message has been edited by Kayo (edited 03-22-2001).]

Hey Kelley,

Thou hast struck the bullseye.

I know what Dave's problem is: there's a battleground in Dave's head and Dave is losing. The Other Dave is just too poisonous, to Dave and to everyone else.

I do feel sorry for him, but I feel sorrier for his victims.

I once dated a guy who had a drinking and drug problem. I didn't find out until after he'd robbed me, set my house on fire, and trashed my reputation. When I dumped him after it was obvious he was not going to get any help, many people asked me why I didn't stand by him through his "Crises".

Because I'm not a fool.

Colleen

or maybe he just has difficulty following logical arguments due to his own ego getting in the way.

My suspicion is it's his third leg that's getting in the way, not his ego.

I understand "the rage" having been victimized by it myself at times. My feeling is, he's less crazy than he appears (sic:mentally ill) because of the pleasure he seems to derive from spreading such misery.

But that's probably just "the other Dave", doing some sort of perverse "reach around" to the "real" one.

Jack-

All kidding aside, I don't think the fact that he derives satisfaction or pleasure from his seeming victories is any indication that he's not unhealthy. In all probability there's an incredible schism in his self image due to the real world lionization that he's received on a regular basis conflicting with the raging internal voices.

The term for his "philosophy" is a fixed delusional system. When someone suffers from that there's no point in arguing logic with them as they've become incapable of making the neccessary leaps in logic to successfully be analytical in their thinking.

Colleen-

I agree with your viewpoint of feeling sorry for Dave but sorrier for his victims. It seems as though you maintained a high level of empathy for both the ex-and for Dave but refused to suppress your own needs and health in order to prop up a man who was determined to give free reign to a destructive nature. You get nothing from me for that behaviour except praise and kudos.

My only complaint about Colleen's post is that she made the rest of us look like ignorant, squabbling nincompoops.

Everyone should cut-and-paste and keep a copy of her essay on their desktop to use next time someone pipes up in defense of Sim's non-misogyny or manly, principled behavior.

I thought Colleen's comments on the self-publishers' tendency to "close ranks" and gloss over Sim's increasingly unsavory behavior were particularly interesting.

I should remind everyone that at the time of the controversy, the first cartoonist to break with Sim and refuse to join him on his "Spirits of Independence" tour was Jeff Smith, who, by the way, declined to comment on the matter to the JOURNAL -- thus setting an early standard of discretion (this was AFTER Sim had dragged him and his wife into CEREBUS #186) that has since been blown to smithereens by all parties.

Kelley,

Is it not possible that some people just possess outlandish beliefs and then attempt to reason around such beliefs? Was every believer in nymphs, succubi, and transcendent beings through the history of mankind in possession of a fixed delusional state? Can't we just take Dave at his word?

Joan of Arc was burned at the stake for what you suggest wasn't she, Charles?

Charles-

Yes, many people hold outre and unusual ideas that don't reflect either the mainstream or commom sense, and there's no indication that doing so merits them the label of being mentally ill. Dave, on the other hand has exhibited, admitted to, and written at great length about his symptoms. I'm not doing a formal diagnosis of the guy, so it's possible that I'm mistaken, but he does demonstrate far too much symptomology not to consider the great probability of illness. The strange belief system, combined with the voices that he hears (and he's very clear that he's not being allegorical when he writes and talks about them), combined with the abrupt mood swings, combined with the paranoia and the admitted hospitalization and "nervous breakdown" don't leave me with much doubt about his mental health.


Again, I don't mean this as a putdown of Dave, I'm just trying to put his behaviour into some context that makes sense beyond just being nasty, contrary or visionary. For what it's worth I think he does an absolutely brilliant job of portraying the mind set of a schizophrenic when he has Cerebus beseiged by and arguing with his own voices. If nothing else you've got to give credit to Sim for having and expressing one of the most consistantly unique points of view in a comic book.