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#461768 - 04/10/01 06:30 AM Re: Frank Cho Agonistes: Print Post Drops Liberty Meadows
Captain Retard! Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/00
Posts: 259
Loc: Los Angeles, California, USA.
For god's sake, "Art" is not about how successful you are at drawing the "gluteus maximus" in perspective! Wanna draw like Frank Cho? Pick up a copy of "The Famous Artists Course" on Ebay, or any of the tedious anatomy books by Andrew Loomis. Spend a few months on those and you'll be all set. Dismissing a whole generation of alternative cartoonists in favor of "craftsmen" like John Bucema is displaying one hell of an immature set of esthetic standards! One gets the impression that Cho's the type who would gladly tear down the Picassos from the museum walls and replace them with anatomically "correct" drawings of barbarians, women with big tits, and Dinosaurs!

Seb

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#461769 - 04/10/01 11:54 AM Re: Frank Cho Agonistes: Print Post Drops Liberty Meadows
Steve Hogan Offline
Member

Registered: 02/27/01
Posts: 5099
Loc: Burlington, VT 05401
Here's an example: I'm more impressed by a musician who's technical chops are a little rough but who writes interesting and original songs as opposed to some guy who's a technical virtuoso but just plays in a Van Halen cover band.

Technique can be great....when combined with great ideas and a willingness to take chances. That's what seperates Jimi Hendrix from your average clown in a heavy metal band.

Walt Kelly was indeed a great cartoonist, but not just because his Disney training helped him draw pretty pictures. It was Kelly's willingness to think outside the box and take audiences somewhere they hadn't been before that made Pogo special.

Dismissing everything that doesn't immediately make you comfortable as "Artsy fartsy" is a creative dead end for an artist. It's an artist's willingness to challenge themselves and expand their horizons that leads them in new directions. Even if your goal is only to entertain, growth is not to be feared.

I like the way you draw Frank, it would be nice to have a decent story to go with it.
_________________________
http://www.acidkeg.com/

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#461770 - 04/10/01 12:50 PM Re: Frank Cho Agonistes: Print Post Drops Liberty Meadows
Captain Retard! Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/00
Posts: 259
Loc: Los Angeles, California, USA.
..And let's not underestimate the importance of developing a style that's uniquely yours as opposed to rehashing the same old, tired visual clichés.

Seb

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#461771 - 04/10/01 01:09 PM Re: Frank Cho Agonistes: Print Post Drops Liberty Meadows
Chris Ekman Offline
Member

Registered: 03/07/00
Posts: 266
Loc: Barre, MA, US
Speaking as a TCJ folk, I agree that Walt Kelly was the greatest cartoonist ever.

Still, Frank, it's no surprise that people get angry when you insist that only slick illustration is any good- that humor should be drawn like Kelly and drama should be drawn like, I don't know, Hal Foster. It's just silly on the face of it. Peanuts wouldn't have been any funnier or more insightful a strip if Schulz had been Disney-trained. I think your hard line on this subject makes you sound like the comics equivalent of Yngvie Malmsteen, or some other of those guitar whiz kids from the '80s- the ones who valued the ability to play pentatonic scales blindingly fast over soul.

(Oops- I hadn't seen Steve Hogan's post above that made the same point. Sorry.)


[This message has been edited by Chris Ekman (edited 04-10-2001).]

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#461772 - 04/10/01 01:17 PM Re: Frank Cho Agonistes: Print Post Drops Liberty Meadows
Kim Thompson Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 0
Honestly, Frank, regardless of whether UFS was going to retire PEANUTS or run reprints, if you don't realize it was grossly tacky to engineer an e-mail promotion campaign for LIBERTY MEADOWS as soon as you learned Schulz was retiring (to battle a fatal disease!), you're so tone-deaf to matters of class and appropriateness that it's pointless to argue with you.

I'm also puzzled as to why you would lie about your source for the false news that Schulz was stopping the strip outright and then, as Buckminster points out, get pissy when the JOURNAL suggested that you were lying about it. ("How dare they suggest I was lying when I told them a lie?") And it strikes me that the reason you wanted to keep your syndicate out of it is because at that point it may have dawned on you the scale of the PR disaster that was happening, and if you'd implicated your syndicate they would probably have had no chance but to react (publicly) in dismay at your ghoulish promotional endeavor.

It's also worth noting that one of the most stalwart defenders of LIBERTY MEADOWS is THE COMICS JOURNAL's own R.C. Harvey, so don't try to play the "THE COMICS JOURNAL always picks on poor Frank Cho" card.

I think your taste in comics is ridiculously middlebrow and conservative, but everyone's entitled to his own taste. There's an element of Pat O'Neill I-say-it's-spinach querulousness in your wholesale dismissal of every single cartoonist in that particular group that suggests you haven't exactly knocked yourself out familiarizing yourself with the work (not that you should, unless you were actually going to sit on a jury or... uh, never mind), but then again, it's possible that you've dutifully plowed your way through at least one issue of every significant alternative comic of the last two years from ACME to -- er, to some comic that starts with a "Z" -- and hated every single one of 'em.

Anyway, this is a tempest in a teapot -- the ill will you've stirred up among a certain tiny sliver of comics cognoscenti is unlikely to make the slightest difference in your battle to keep LIBERTY MEADOWS in the WASHINGTON POST, and my guess is that you'll be successful. It's an awful pretty strip, it's got a lot of fans, so more power to you. Any comic strip that has a faithful and vocal readership is a good thing, whether I like that particular strip or not. OK?

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#461773 - 04/10/01 01:44 PM Re: Frank Cho Agonistes: Print Post Drops Liberty Meadows
gene phillips Offline
Member

Registered: 09/30/99
Posts: 5910
Loc: Houston, TX
Mute: What Kim said-- R.C. Harvey never slammed Cho's work to my knowledge; indeed, he wrote a long letter to the JOURNAL (gratis, since last I looked the JOURNAL doesn't pay for letters) defending Cho's work from the negative review Milo George gave it. Unless you were being satirical--?

Frank: Excellent list of fine draftsmen in mainstream comics. Even granting that there are a lot of bad artists working in the mainstream, I do think the quality work of people like Schulz and Mignola gets overlooked by those who characterize the mainstream as filled with nothing but Liefeld clones.

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#461774 - 04/10/01 02:29 PM Re: Frank Cho Agonistes: Print Post Drops Liberty Meadows
Robert Ullman Offline
Member

Registered: 06/02/00
Posts: 75
Loc: Richmond, VA
Hey Frank, did your idea to lay out the strips sideways in LM come from that first issue of From the Curve I gave you at Dreamcon in Raleigh back in spring of 97? I've always wondered about that...

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#461775 - 04/10/01 02:36 PM Re: Frank Cho Agonistes: Print Post Drops Liberty Meadows
U Po Kyin Offline
Member

Registered: 01/01/01
Posts: 579
Loc: AZ
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank Cho:
Most of the artsy fartsy stuff is bad.
If your blanket "artsy-fartsy stuff" merely means all black and white comics, than yes, I agree most of it is bad. But then, with your high standards I'm sure you'd agree most color comics are bad too.


I can name MANY. Just off the top of my head: Adam Hughes, Mark Schultz, Al Williamson, Art Adams, Travis Charest, Marc Hempel, Alex Ross, Jeff Smith, Linda Medley, John Buscema, Alan Davis, Carlos Pacheo, Serpieri, Moebius, Mike Mignola, Bill Stout, Dave Stevens, Gary Gianni, and countless others that I can't think of right now.

This list makes me doubt you know the artists in question or my original statement. First, Moebius and Serpieri are hardly "mainstream" artists. Al Williamson, John Buscema and Bill Stout are hardly "modern" and their work is not exactly setting the mainstream monthly scene on fire of late (why not include Jack Kirby too?). Ignoring the couple genuine talents of Jeff Smith, Linda Medley and Mike Mignola I have to laugh at your inclusion of such noodling stylists as Art Adams and Alan Davis, who you apparently consider superior to Jaime Hernandez AND equals to Al Williamson and Moebius(!). Take an issue of EXCALIBUR or an X-MEN ANNUAL to your average community college art teacher and compare it to "The Death of Speedy" (or The Airtight Garage for that matter) and you'll get a quick answer as to who has a greater grasp of anatomy, composition, and perspective. And that's ignoring Chris Claremonts generally silly and screechy prose.

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#461776 - 04/10/01 10:46 PM Re: Frank Cho Agonistes: Print Post Drops Liberty Meadows
Mute Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/98
Posts: 465
Quote:
Originally posted by gene phillips:
What Kim said-- R.C. Harvey never slammed Cho's work to my knowledge [...] Unless you were being satirical--?


Could it be?

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#461777 - 04/10/01 11:38 PM Re: Frank Cho Agonistes: Print Post Drops Liberty Meadows
Frank Cho Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/00
Posts: 165
Loc: Ellicott City, Maryland, USA
For god's sake, "Art" is not about how successful you are at drawing the "gluteus maximus" in perspective! Wanna draw like Frank Cho? Pick up a
copy of "The Famous Artists Course" on Ebay, or any of the tedious anatomy books by Andrew Loomis. Spend a few months on those and you'll be
all set.


If only it was that simple. And I have to disagree about Andrew Loomis. He was one of the best in the business and his books are a great source for inspiration and instruction.


Dismissing a whole generation of alternative cartoonists in favor of "craftsmen" like John Bucema is displaying one hell of an immature set of
esthetic standards!


And yet, you the artsy fartsy boys at the TCJ do exactly the same thing with "mainstream" artists. For you information, I didn't dismiss a whole generation of alternate artists, just most of them.


One gets the impression that Cho's the type who would gladly tear down the Picassos from the museum walls and replace them
with anatomically "correct" drawings of barbarians, women with big tits, and Dinosaurs!


No. I would replace them with Norman Rockwell, N.C. Wyeth, Alma-Tadema, Howard Pyle, Degas, John Singer Sargent, Velazquez, etc...People with real talent.

Frank Cho
LIBERTY MEADOWS

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