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#461738 - 04/05/01 02:28 PM Re: Frank Cho Agonistes: Print Post Drops Liberty Meadows
jack Offline
Member

Registered: 11/11/99
Posts: 12596
Loc: Just south of NYC
Oh good grief. TCJ is what it is, a decent monthly of comics criticism. No one disputes that.

It's the idea that it's "widely read" that has more fluff than substance to it.

I think you might sell 10 in all of Vermont for example Kim.

And we guts us educated fools (UVM) where you probably sell the most (5 copies?) in a town of 60,000, mostly college students. And I'll bet Brent and Steve Hogan are 40% of your net Burlington sales.

I still remember when your circulation almost DIED when you stopped comping pro's (please dont lecture or explain to me what really happened, because I saw what happened when you first did it)

If your circ is less than 20,000 my point is proven.

Period.

[This message has been edited by jack (edited 04-05-2001).]

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#461739 - 04/05/01 02:58 PM Re: Frank Cho Agonistes: Print Post Drops Liberty Meadows
Tom Spurgeon Offline
Member

Registered: 12/24/98
Posts: 1095
Loc: WCW Special Forces
Jack, I'm guessing Kim wouldn't argue that dropping hundreds of free subs puts a crimp in circulation, but he'd probably disagree with the characterization that circulation almost "died." I mean, I know the circulation figures through the Journal's history, and even in its worst-selling issues it remained popular enough to stay (at times barely) profitable.

I'd agree that it's hard to make arguments for its significant impact across the industry. It's paid reasonable attention to by an important cross-section of industry figures, readers, and pros. But the industry is so different now that there's no widespread sense of professional solidarity or interest in what may constitute good work. The professionals are almost all mercenaries, and the artists just want to be told how great they are. It's too bad, but it's pretty much what it's like everywhere in the new century. Tell an industry that DC is making secret deals to potentially buy a distributor which is making deals with them as if that weren't going on, and the industry doesn't really care. Give a collection of artists and readers a reasonably compelling take on a century's worth of art, and people dig after the gossipy parts. Oh well.

You're dead-on about the shilling for FBI product -- damn you're smart, Jack.

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#461740 - 04/05/01 03:01 PM Re: Frank Cho Agonistes: Print Post Drops Liberty Meadows
jack Offline
Member

Registered: 11/11/99
Posts: 12596
Loc: Just south of NYC
I prefer the Sugar Coated Smarmees(r), they are my favrit Spurgee Snack (tm). These Honey Hypocrite Holes(r) are boring, there's nothing to them.

Can you teach me to talk like you Tom?

[This message has been edited by jack (edited 04-05-2001).]

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#461741 - 04/09/01 12:21 AM Re: Frank Cho Agonistes: Print Post Drops Liberty Meadows
Frank Cho Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/00
Posts: 165
Loc: Ellicott City, Maryland, USA
Kim Thompson wrote:

My very own mom (a Washington D.C. resident and comic strip reader), unprompted, asked me last year what I thought of this LIBERTY MEADOWS thing, opining that the writing was really lame.


Well, no offense to your mother, Kim. But that's one of the major reason why the comic section in the newspapers sucks, because too many senior citizens judge and complain about comic strips that are clearly not targeted to their group. I think Tom Spurgeon will back me up on this.

On a completely different topic, I just wanted to thank you for recommending the Hong Kong printer to us. They are by far the best and the most cost effective art book printer that we've used. Thanks, Kim.

Frank Cho
LIBERTY MEADOWS

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#461742 - 04/09/01 01:07 AM Re: Frank Cho Agonistes: Print Post Drops Liberty Meadows
NatGertler Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/99
Posts: 4618
Frank, if you put your comic in a newspaper, you'd better expect it to be seen and judged by a wide range of folks.

Senior citizen noticing that things suck isn't the problem. Senior citizens complaining that things suck isn't the problem. Things sucking, now that's a problem.

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#461743 - 04/09/01 09:42 AM Re: Frank Cho Agonistes: Print Post Drops Liberty Meadows
Kim Thompson Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 0
Frank, my mom loves HATE and NATURAL BORN KILLERS. If anything, LIBERTY MEADOWS is probably not hip enough for her.

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#461744 - 04/09/01 11:31 AM Re: Frank Cho Agonistes: Print Post Drops Liberty Meadows
Tom Spurgeon Offline
Member

Registered: 12/24/98
Posts: 1095
Loc: WCW Special Forces
I know what Frank's talking about, but I don't think there's a problem about any group pursuing its interest via a letter or two as much as its one of the demographic oddities of doing comic strip work. Ideally, newspaper editors would read complaints received in context, but a great deal of them have little to no interest in a comics page and prefer a comics page with as little fuss as possible. Unless you hit with a lot of papers really quickly -- like Doonesbury and Boondocks did -- giving your strip the sheen of a national powerhouse, you're in great danger of falling under a "not worth it" designation in many editors' minds.

I don't really see it as a problem or anyone being at fault as much as it's a unique facet of a bizarre and tough marketplace. It's a weird, arbitrary business. I used to think this was funny until it became my vocation, but my teenage brothers and I were the ones who pretty much selected new strips for the newspapers my father edited, Dad stepping in only to veto "Rudy."

I still think any paper should give space to any professional comic strip done by someone in their home area. It's just good business.

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#461745 - 04/09/01 11:48 AM Re: Frank Cho Agonistes: Print Post Drops Liberty Meadows
jack Offline
Member

Registered: 11/11/99
Posts: 12596
Loc: Just south of NYC
Hate and Natural Born Killers are comic strips?

In what paper?

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#461746 - 04/09/01 12:17 PM Re: Frank Cho Agonistes: Print Post Drops Liberty Meadows
Steve Hogan Offline
Member

Registered: 02/27/01
Posts: 5099
Loc: Burlington, VT 05401
Quote:
Originally posted by jack:
And we guts us educated fools (UVM) where you probably sell the most (5 copies?) in a town of 60,000, mostly college students. And I'll bet Brent and Steve Hogan are 40% of your net Burlington sales.


I don't get every issue, so I hope Brent is pulling his weight! Currently the only outlet in Burlington for TCJ is Borders. Earth Prime, the only dedicated comic book store doesn't carry it citing "Poor sales". (This could be due to the fact that it's slot on the magazine rack was right where the empty pizza boxes tended to pile up.) As things stand, Borders hasn't gotten a new issue since the Tom Sutton one.

Does James Kochalka still read TCJ? That would be another sale.
_________________________
http://www.acidkeg.com/

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#461747 - 04/09/01 12:19 PM Re: Frank Cho Agonistes: Print Post Drops Liberty Meadows
Steve Hogan Offline
Member

Registered: 02/27/01
Posts: 5099
Loc: Burlington, VT 05401
Quote:
Originally posted by Kim Thompson:
Frank, my mom loves HATE and NATURAL BORN KILLERS. If anything, LIBERTY MEADOWS is probably not hip enough for her.


Actually, NATURAL BORN KILLERS reminded me of LIBERTY MEADOWS with blood and Leonard Cohen music thrown in.
_________________________
http://www.acidkeg.com/

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