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#461758 - 04/09/01 07:56 PM Re: Frank Cho Agonistes: Print Post Drops Liberty Meadows
jack Offline
Member

Registered: 11/11/99
Posts: 12596
Loc: Just south of NYC
All the way to the bank, Philip [img]/resources/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

Look it works like this, the store is a conduit with the exception of my small press addiction, which I cram down everyone's throats, I'm dictated to by my customers.

I had an initial negative opinion about Liberty Meadows strictly based on Milo George's review in TCJ. As I have said in other posts, I use and trust that magazine somewhat when it comes to small press especially. I tend to dismiss their mainstream stuff, especially since their negative bias bleeds all over it in print, bit I trust their folks to be at least impartial and accurate, when it comes to what my customers are supposedly going to like or not.

I sell the shit out of Liberty Meadows, and it's one of those books that brings people into the store looking for more.

Give me a break on this already. It's the READERS who decide whether a book is popular or not, not you creators (who know how to do it right goddamit if they only had the chance why is this golden opportunity for someone good to get in getting pissed away by someone who voted for themselves in the goddamn harvey's for chrissake).

The readers say its a killer book. Ive read a few and they are pretty eye candy I could really care less about, like I'm not attached to it or even care WHY people like it, only that they do, so I make sure its available because I have many many many other things to do besides worry whether Cho draws good backgrounds.

I sell 35 Avengers and Spawn a month too, and I KNOW they are LCD, but my READERS like them and it makes them happy, so I'm kind of careful not to launch into ideas like Milo's about Liberty Meadows (or any title for that matter) to my customers.

[This message has been edited by jack (edited 04-09-2001).]

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#461759 - 04/09/01 08:20 PM Re: Frank Cho Agonistes: Print Post Drops Liberty Meadows
jack Offline
Member

Registered: 11/11/99
Posts: 12596
Loc: Just south of NYC
Mr Cho, I have this question to ask you. Here's a quote from someone who's opinion I respect very highly over at TCJ recently, and I'd like your take on it, if you care to that is:

posted by John Roberson:
Quote:
What he did to Schultz was despicable. A few days before his death, Sparky realized he'd have to take a few days off and concentrate on fighting cancer. The strip would be reruns for a while (forever, as it turned out). Frank Cho told everyone to tell their newspaper editors to throw out Peanuts and instate Liberty Meadows; according to "rumors on the internet", Sparky was actually none too pleased that his strip was being rerun. No-one else had heard these rumors. Really, the man wasn't dead, he must have thought he still had a chance; "Guess you won't be needing this space anymore" was the wrong thing to say


Is this an accurate representation of what happened?

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#461760 - 04/09/01 08:54 PM Re: Frank Cho Agonistes: Print Post Drops Liberty Meadows
Steve Hogan Offline
Member

Registered: 02/27/01
Posts: 5099
Loc: Burlington, VT 05401
Quote:
Originally posted by jack:
[B]I sell 35 Avengers and Spawn a month too, and I KNOW they are LCD, but my READERS like them and it makes them happy, so I'm kind of careful not to launch into ideas like Milo's about Liberty Meadows (or any title for that matter) to my customers.B]


Hey I used to manage Pure Pop Records, so I'm familiar with the manly art of toungue biting Jack. (Something I had to work on with the surly long time cashiers.) I realize that there's a thin line between educating the consumer and digging your own grave.

So as a CONSUMER I'm criticizing Cho. Gimmie satisfaction Frank or it's out with you and on to Broom Hilda!
_________________________
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#461761 - 04/09/01 09:19 PM Re: Frank Cho Agonistes: Print Post Drops Liberty Meadows
Philip Looney Offline
Member

Registered: 05/28/00
Posts: 2029
Loc: Columbia, SC, USA
Ok, let me ask this question: what about LM is not funny? What do you find funny?
I don't read every strip and lol. I don't care for the sexual reference jokes(which usually get edited out of the newspaper anyway, but you get them in the comic), but I think Mr. Cho does a great job with satire, especially of pop culture and other comic strips. In the latest issue, Cho does a send up of the rise and fall of instant pop stars. To me, this was funny, as our society seems so caught up with celebrities. Just look at VH1's Behind the Music. It's one of VH1's most popular shows(you're lying if you say you've never watched ONE episode). Cho did a send up of this mentality, which ended as Ralph the bear became a born again christian, being baptized by the characters of B.C. This was a send up of Johnny Hart's critianity, which shines through in B.C.
IMHO, this was funny and clever. It was definatly better than a lot of writing in the funny papers today.
_________________________
Yes, I\'ve started a blog too.

Pop-Town Productions - Comics for all!

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#461762 - 04/10/01 12:08 AM Re: Frank Cho Agonistes: Print Post Drops Liberty Meadows
Frank Cho Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/00
Posts: 165
Loc: Ellicott City, Maryland, USA
Hey Jack!

Is this what happened?

---------------------------------------------

What he did to Schultz was despicable. A few days before his death, Sparky realized he'd have to take a few days off and concentrate on fighting cancer. The strip would be reruns for a while (forever, as it turned out). Frank Cho told everyone to tell their newspaper editors to throw out Peanuts and instate Liberty Meadows; according to "rumors on the internet", Sparky was actually none too pleased that his strip was being rerun. No-one else had heard these rumors. Really, the man wasn't dead, he must have thought he still had a chance; "Guess you won't be needing this space anymore" was the wrong thing to say

--------------------------------------------

Of course not. This is based on bunch of rumors and badmouthing by the people at the TCJ Message board.


This is what happened:

--------------------------------------------


HP: Some folks also seem upset about a campaign, orchestrated by you, to have Liberty Meadows replace Peanuts now that Charles Schulz is retiring. They seem to liken you to someone hovering outside a rent controlled apartment whose current occupant is packing to move out.

FC: (laughs) Okay, here's the story. I have a semi-monthly newsletter that I send out to the Internet fans who send me e-mail. On each newsletter I talk about what's going on in my comic. Before I send out each newsletter, I have Mark Wheatley and a couple of other people check the facts, and if the facts are wrong, they just delete it, or don't send it out or correct it. My syndicate told me they were getting all this news from other sales reps, from other syndicates, that Charles Schulz was retiring and everyone in the industry was scrambling to fill Charles Schulz's slot. Every syndicate was sending out their sales force to promote their syndicate's strip. Everyone knew in the industry that Charles Schulz had repeatedly said that once he retired or died, the strip would stop. Period. The sales force director of my syndicate told me this, and everyone else--other cartoonists--said, "You've got to self promote; it's the only way you can survive in this industry." So in my last newsletter, I said, basically, "After a fantastic 50 year run, Charles Schulz is retiring. If you like my strip, write or call your Features Editor." And I also put in a note that said "Charles Schulz is retiring and his syndicate, against his will, will reprint Peanuts," because, again, based on what the sales force director told me. So I gave this newsletter to Mark to check the facts, and it turned out it was wrong--it turned out Charles Schulz did give permission to run the reprints in the newspapers. So, Mark Wheatley took that part out. From what I gather, Mark passed it in email to Steve Conley and Rick Veitch at Comicon.com [http://www.comicon.com] to check the facts and see if this was correct. I think Rick contacted The Comics Journal to get Charles Schulz's phone number, and [they] asked him "What's it for?" The next thing I know, I got a call from The Comics Journal saying, "Who's your source?" I didn't tell them it was my syndicate--my syndicate's sales force director. I didn't want to bring them into it. So, I told them I got it over e-mail from a couple of fans. They in not so many worlds called me a liar. My newsletter with the
Charles Schulz reprint decision never went out --but then I get some news from Kim Thompson of The Comics Journal, and...

TheComicStore.com: ...by way of The Comics Journal, it kind of went out anyway.

FC: Right. The Comics Journal is the one who spread the rumor.

---------------------------------------------


Will this ever die down? No. The 14 people (wannabe artsy fartsy cartoonists) on the TCJ message board will keep bringing up.

Let me also clear up some stuff while I'm at it:
1) I like mainstream comics and humor. I dislike most alternative titles except for Bone, Cavewoman, Castle Waiting, Akiko, Usagi Yojimbo, and several other titles that I'm forgetting.
2) I hate artsy fartsy comics and art. But respect the passion of creating by the writers and artists.
3) I hate most of modern newspaper comic strips especially those politically correct family strips that involve little children.
4) I believe all artist (meaning people who draw) should able to draw what they see correctly (perspective and draftsmanship) before they start to experiment.
5) I believe Walt Kelly IS the greatest cartoonist ever.


Let the badmouthing by the TCJ people and it's fans start.


Frank Cho
LIBERTY MEADOWS

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#461763 - 04/10/01 12:56 AM Re: Frank Cho Agonistes: Print Post Drops Liberty Meadows
Buckminster Futter Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/00
Posts: 349
Loc: The Hoosier Heartland
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank Cho:
I didn't tell them it was my syndicate--my syndicate's sales force director. I didn't want to bring them into it. So, I told them I got it over e-mail from a couple of fans. They in not so many worlds (sic) called me a liar.


Well, with all due respect, wasn't that, in actuality, a lie?

Kowabunga.



------------------
"Those are my principles...if you don't like them, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
_________________________
"How perfectly goddamn delightful it all is, to be sure." ~ Charles Crumb

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#461764 - 04/10/01 01:06 AM Re: Frank Cho Agonistes: Print Post Drops Liberty Meadows
U Po Kyin Offline
Member

Registered: 01/01/01
Posts: 579
Loc: AZ
If Cavewoman is what you consider alternative Mr.Cho, I think your horizons are awfully narrow and are unqualified to judge others work. Can you honestly say that there is a single modern mainstream comic artist who is a superior draftsman to Jaime Hernandez, or Robert Crumb, or Charles Burns, or Chris Ware? I'd like to see Brandon Choi or Pulido or any of those guys go head to head with these true alternatives in pure illustrative chops, which you favor so highly.

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#461765 - 04/10/01 01:57 AM Re: Frank Cho Agonistes: Print Post Drops Liberty Meadows
NatGertler Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/99
Posts: 4618
Quote:
Ok, let me ask this question: what about LM is not funny?
That's one of those impossible questions to answer. What isn't funny about anything? Humor is not the natural state of most things; they need reasons to be funny. And even when things are funny, trying to describe just why they're funny is a difficult matter (and tends to be like dissecting a balloon; you don't learn much, and you destroy the joy.)
I may be able to describe some things that I don't like about his work, but any of those would be largely forgiven if the strip tickled my funnybone. It doesn't.

(This is not to say anything against those who find humor in his work; he clearly entertains some people, and more power to him for bringing some joy into their life and to them for finding that joy. Because of some of his rendering strengths, I generally don't skip looking at the strip altogether if I'm reading the paper... something that's not true of such "funnies" as Sylvia and Crock.)

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#461766 - 04/10/01 01:58 AM Re: Frank Cho Agonistes: Print Post Drops Liberty Meadows
Frank Cho Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/00
Posts: 165
Loc: Ellicott City, Maryland, USA
If Cavewoman is what you consider alternative Mr.Cho, I think your horizons are awfully narrow and are unqualified to judge others work.

I disagree. I've seen most of what's out there and I can clearly judge what's good and what's bad. Most of the artsy fartsy stuff is bad.

Can you
honestly say that there is a single modern mainstream comic artist who is a superior draftsman to Jaime Hernandez, or Robert Crumb, or Charles
Burns, or Chris Ware? I'd like to see Brandon Choi or Pulido or any of those guys go head to head with these true alternatives in pure illustrative
chops, which you favor so highly.


I can name MANY. Just off the top of my head: Adam Hughes, Mark Schultz, Al Williamson, Art Adams, Travis Charest, Marc Hempel, Alex Ross, Jeff Smith, Linda Medley, John Buscema, Alan Davis, Carlos Pacheo, Serpieri, Moebius, Mike Mignola, Bill Stout, Dave Stevens, Gary Gianni, and countless others that I can't think of right now.

Frank Cho
LIBERTY MEADOWS

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#461767 - 04/10/01 02:45 AM Re: Frank Cho Agonistes: Print Post Drops Liberty Meadows
Mute Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/98
Posts: 465
Jim quoted Jack:
Quote:

What I want to know is why TCJ folks as a group think Cho's work is worthless, and why they think he's such a shallow hypocrite?

Which group of "TCJ folks" think that?


Jack has evidently been influenced by R.C. Harvey's repeated slams on Liberty Meadows in issue after issue.

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