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#462144 - 04/04/01 08:09 PM Re: Pat O'Neill: Please Explain
Steve Lieber Offline
Member

Registered: 03/02/00
Posts: 296
Loc: Portland, OR
Curiously enough, Jimmy Corrigan has received the occasional good review several non-comics venues. Here are a few that I found using google:

http://europe.cnn.com/2000/books/news/10/03/chris.ware/
http://www.sfbg.com/lit/oct00/
http://dailycardinal.com/issues/2000/10/20001024/20001024.art_corrigan.chtml
http://www.jamcaster.com/TimeCanada0009/18_time23.html
http://flakmag.com/books/corrigan.html
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/entertainment/stories/001228/5008878.html
http://www.divus.cz/umelec/english/2000/U2/comics_E.html
http://slate.msn.com/SummaryJudgment/00-10-03/SummaryJudgment.asp
http://www.bookmagazine.com/issue12/inthemargins.shtml
http://www.emazing.com/archives/book/2000-10-06
http://www.goodreports.net/jimwar.htm
http://www.metroactive.com/papers/metro/11.09.00/cover/ware-0045.html
http://www.mensjournal.com/agenda/0008/list_august.html
http://www.newtimesla.com/issues/2000-09-14/calendar2.html
http://www.auschron.com/issues/dispatch/2000-09-08/books_feature.html
http://www.dallasnews.com/entertainment/196828_critics_22art..html
http://www.bestofneworleans.com/special/imprint/001205/panel.html
http://www.netsurf.com/nsd/nsd.06.35.html
http://www.publishersweekly.com/articles/20001016_91770.asp
http://www.newyorkmag.com/page.cfm?page_id=3739
http://www.januarymagazine.com/artcult/corrigan.html
http://www.feedmag.com/templates/printer.php3?a_id=1296
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,53887,00.html
http://www.metropulse.com/dir_zine/dir_2001/1109/t_pulp.html
http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/wpln/arts/books/article/290.html
http://www.jhu.edu/~newslett/11-30-00/Arts/1.html
http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/wpln/arts/books/article/290.html
http://www.portlandmercury.com/2001-01-25/art.html
http://www.freetimes.com/issues/923/arts-word1.php3
http://www.aan.org/display_story.phtml?ARTICLE_ID=747
http://www.bookforum.net/home/silverblatt.html
http://www.varsity.utoronto.ca/archives/121/sept28/review/clowes.html
http://www.bookmagazine.com/issue14/jsullivan.shtml
http://www.riverdeep.net/riverdeep_today/news_2001/jan/011001_comics.html
http://www.greatwest.ca/ffwd/Issues/2000/1207/book1.htm
http://www.laweekly.com/ink/01/06/books.shtml
http://www.captimes.com/opinion/books/reviews/2000/12/katchor_knipl_122200.html
http://www.pitch.com/issues/2000-01-13/art.html
http://www.thestranger.com/2000-11-02/books.html
http://www.villagevoice.com/vls/171/fave.shtml

I assembled this list in ten minutes by skimming the summaries of the first 100 sites that came up in a search. (There were another 1440 listings that wasn't about to bother to investigating. I do have deadlines, after all.) It's worth noting that many of the sites above are the online versions of print magazines and newspapers.


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[This message has been edited by Steven Lieber (edited 04-04-2001).]
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#462145 - 04/04/01 08:13 PM Re: Pat O'Neill: Please Explain
Eric Reynolds Offline
Member

Registered: 03/25/99
Posts: 266
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
Pat O'Neill wrote:
>>No, I think it proves this material is of interest to book critics.

But Pat, the fella who wrote the piece isn't a NYTimes book critic. He's a feature writer for "Arts & Leisure" who often covers pop music. Try again.
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#462146 - 04/04/01 08:21 PM Re: Pat O'Neill: Please Explain
NatGertler Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/99
Posts: 4618
From the respectable Peter David:
Quote:
Maybe not solely, but certainly enough to result in "Tomcats" being the number 4 movie in America...
Which means that somewhere around a million people saw it, which is well less than 1% of the people in this country who went to see a heavily-promoted film. And I can't even say for sure that all of those few viewers choose to avoid literature; many of us chose to take in a range of entertainment and the arts. Just because someone saw Tomcats, I won't assume that they are "against anything that is not actively ignorant."
Quote:
But if they read a review of a comic book, their reaction may well be, "Oh, but *I don't read comics.*"
For some of them, but for some of them it may come with a "but maybe I should". Some may be intrigued by the whole concept of a comic they can take seriously. Goodness knows I've seen that reaction plenty from folks who are not normally comics buyers (Maus being the most common example of what they take to, but I've also seen it for Sandman, for Watchmen, and for various other works.)
Quote:
Positive reviews of "Cavalier and Klay" made the book a top seller. You can't possibly convince me that it would have had the same sales success if "Cavalier and Klay" had been a graphic novel instead.
It doesn't have to the the same sales success to indeed be getting readers who aren't generally reading comics. I haven't seen anyone here saying that no one resists comics.

We don't have to win over everyone to increase our sales. We just have to win over some folks.

And from there we slide on down to Pat O'Neill
Quote:
Those folks will not be impressed by the term "graphic literature" or by a page of comics that takes ten minutes to read
Ah, is this psychic-Pat talking or expert-Pat?

On to Kim:
Quote:
JIMMY CORRIGAN has been at that level at Amazon consistently for the last many months. In any event, I don't think they adjust their figures THAT fast (as in, reflecting sales from the early part of the day).
Actually, they do. Their sales stats are updated hourly (at least for their top sellers; I think they mess with the lower numbers less often. I currently have a book that gets into their top 1000 ranking from time to time, and I can watch its ranking droop or pick up during the day. However, it's not just sales for the past hour. It's some formula based on how many they've sold and how recently they've sold them.) As I write this, Corrigan is up to #118, even though they don't have copies on hand and expect to take 1-2 weeks to get them.

And then we get Heidi:
Quote:
Finally, Nat, I honestly didn't start this thread as another Pat-bashing fest.
Does that means that his comments should somehow be immune from criticism? Or that we're supposed to forget his history and general attitude?

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#462147 - 04/04/01 08:31 PM Re: Pat O'Neill: Please Explain
Randolph Hoppe Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/23/00
Posts: 23
Loc: Hoboken, New Jersey, USA
And it's not even a "book review". My guess is that the NYT Ware piece would qualify as a feature article. It's on the front page of the regular wednesday "The Arts' section, with color photographs and reproductions.

There's a book review on the back page of this section near the TV listings.



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Randolph Hoppe
Executive Sweet, Lemon Custard Comics
http://lemoncustard.com
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#462148 - 04/05/01 01:20 AM Re: Pat O'Neill: Please Explain
Kim Thompson Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 0
Sorry for mistrusting the reality of Peter David. As I said, once burned...

I offered Pat O'Neill his selection of any Fantagraphics title for free if he would just tell us what he thought of it and he said no, he knew he wouldn't like A SINGLE ONE OF THEM, proving that his principled "I don't want to give any money to Gary Groth" stance was bullshit. He just has no taste.

I stand corrected on the celerity with which Amazon.con updates its figures, but still, how many people read the NEW YORK TIMES in the morning and had ordered the book before noon? By the way, it's now available again.

Oh dear, ChrisW didn't like JIMMY CORRIGAN, and Pat O'Neill can tell he won't either. Whom should you trust, ChrisW and Pat O'Neill on one hand, or Art Spiegelman and Dave Eggers on the other? What a conundrum!

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#462149 - 04/05/01 04:34 AM Re: Pat O'Neill: Please Explain
Rory D. Root Offline
Member

Registered: 09/12/99
Posts: 628
Loc: Berkeley,Ca.,USA
Pat said, "No, I think it proves this material is of interest to book critics. If the NYTimes article results in increased sales of Ware's work, then you might have a point.

But I doubt it will...for one thing, as I note in that thread, calling something "literature" and thus comparing it to the stuff forced on kids in high school is unlikely to generate interest among the general public."

I was working the register at Comic Relief today and definatly saw a trend, four new customers came in and before lunch bought us out of JC, one also bought all the issues not collected, I asked her why the aparrently sudden interest in Ware's work, and she said she had read about it in the Times, the person who had bought a JC right before her agreed that that was the reason he finally bought it after reading numerous reviews.

As to the theory that publicity sells books, well it works for me.

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Comic Relief: THE Comic Bookstore

[This message has been edited by Rory D. Root (edited 04-05-2001).]
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#462150 - 04/05/01 05:58 AM Re: Pat O'Neill: Please Explain
jack Offline
Member

Registered: 11/11/99
Posts: 12596
Loc: Just south of NYC
Whoa, Peter David! I'm pretty jaded, but when it comes to funnybook writing, I'm a BIG fan of yours. You wrote (IMO) one of the greatest epics in superhero comics, and have a way of telling/constructing a story that is unsurpassed in the business.

You and I are lookalikes, BTW. At least that's what Mr Veitch says. I look better in a bathing suit though, I bet [img]/resources/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

Advertising/reviews have a STRONG impact on what happens to a book in the store, from my experience. I don't think many people in Barre, VT read the NYT but when we do radio or in-print (especially co-op, which DC does a good job on) we can spike interest in any direction we want.

Also, DC now does a preview week, where they send you a half dozen or so books that will be out in the NEXT shipment, and I've found that helps increase volume also.

But the NYT reviewing ANYTHING in comics can only be helpful.

[This message has been edited by jack (edited 04-05-2001).]

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#462151 - 04/05/01 06:26 AM Re: Pat O'Neill: Please Explain
RichJohnston Offline
Member

Registered: 03/17/99
Posts: 309
There has been a fair amount of anecdotal evidence in this forum that positive reviews of comic book material like David Boring, Jimmy Corrigan, From Hell and Safe Area Gorazde has resulted in increased sales at bookstores by consumers who do not usually buy comics.

I can report that in my advertising agency, Corrigan and From Hell have appeared on the bookshelves of people who never read comics, save for the occasional copy of Viz.

Rich J
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#462152 - 04/05/01 06:34 AM Re: Pat O'Neill: Please Explain
RichJohnston Offline
Member

Registered: 03/17/99
Posts: 309
Originally posted by Steven Lieber:
Curiously enough, Jimmy Corrigan has received the occasional good review several non-comics venues. Here are a few that I found using google:

All hail the master of web-fu.
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#462153 - 04/05/01 07:42 AM Re: Pat O'Neill: Please Explain
Rick Veitch Administrator Offline
Member

Registered: 11/23/98
Posts: 3531
Loc: Vermont, USA
Welcome back, Jack. You said:
Quote:
You and I are lookalikes, BTW. At least that's what Mr Veitch says.


Since I've never met Peter and not spoken to you in twenty years (except through the relative safety of this message board), I don't have a clue what your going on about.

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