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#462826 - 04/14/01 07:17 PM Re: Dave Sim Tangents
Stephen R Bissette Offline

Registered: 11/27/98
Posts: 939
Loc: wilmington, VT USA
Chris -- Sorry, the phrase "THE only racist film" had wider connotations; with the mix of filmmakers being discussed, I misunderstood.
Apologies. That's what happens when one stumbles into an ongoing conversation.

Back to the bar ramblings...

[This message has been edited by Stephen R Bissette (edited 04-14-2001).]

#462827 - 04/14/01 08:58 PM Re: Dave Sim Tangents
Kim Thompson Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 0
Originally posted by ChrisW:
I asked your buddy Bill Jemas er Kim Thompson if the Journal would indeed have printed Sim's 2-page letter inviting Smith to a fight. Instead of a 'yes' or 'no' answer, he threw a hissy fit, so now I'm asking you the same question.

Huh? Does anyone here have any idea what ChrisW is talking about?

#462828 - 04/14/01 11:03 PM Re: Dave Sim Tangents
jasontrimmer Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/14/01
Posts: 2
To All (though especially Ms. Thompson and Mr. Bissette),

First let me say that I have been visiting for a few months now, mainly for news. The Bulletin Board section I peruse randomly. This thread caught my eye and I registered to reply specifically to this topic.

This might be long so bear with me. First, to the charges that Mr. Sim has written this essay as a PR stunt: it seems much more likely to me that the Comics Journal (and Ms. Thompson specifically) are using their reactionary position as a PR stunt. How many 'hits' have they received on their site where the Sim essay is at the top of the page? No really, I would like to know EXACTLY. Must help get advertisers, huh?

Second, I truly can't believe there is still the 'is Dave Sim a misogynist?' question around. How many times in this essay and countless others has he made the point that NOT being a feminist does not make one a MISOGYNIST. The inability for most on the board, and you specifically, Ms. Thompson, to understand this distinction make of you a latter day Joseph McCarthy. Frankly, Ms. Thompson, I believe you have violated the terms of agreement we all had to agree to to post topics on this board. You are slandering Dave Sim's name and making false accusations against him. You disagree, fine. Calling him an evil, crazy person is NOT a rational response. You have posted nothing in the way of meaningful or thoughtful debate against his ideas.

On the other hand, after reading all five Tangents on the TCJ board, I believe Mr. Sim has made his arguments very clearly, very eloquently, and in the case of the anecdote about the Reverand King, quite profoundly.

This has not been the case in this 'thread.' (Nor is it the case in ANY OTHER 'thread' I have read on this board.)

I have no idea what motivates your behavior, Ms. Thompson. I met Dave at the SPACE convention in Columbus (after having been an exhibitor on the Columbus, Austin, Pittsburgh, and APE stops of the Spirits of Independence tour of 1995) and found him as always to be gracious, warm and accomadating. We talked at length about self-publishing, formal aspects of comic art, and the Florida Recount and his opinions were always considered, pragmatic and humorous. I know this falls on deaf ears. Your opinions of this man are well known. Are you simply marching in lockstep to your employer's orders? What indeed are your rebuttals to Sim's arguments (note: calling him crazy or slandering him in any way is not a rebuttal)? Enlighten us.

I have been and will continue to be a follower of Cerebus. Dave's work and stature in this field remain, to me, undimished. His secretary leaving means nothing. Diana Schutz leaving means nothing. Cerebus was fine before it and will continue to go on. I agree with Dave that those two leaving undermined rather than reinforced their beliefs. Especially in the case of Diana Schutz.

Let me reiterate that I believe you, Ms. Thompson, have violated the terms of your agreement to post here and frankly, if he were so inclined, which I guarantee he is not, I believe that you and TCJ could be held guilty for libel.
In a just world, your privelege to post would be revoked.

Mr. Veitch, I met you in Austin, too, and we had an enjoyable lunch together at the hotel bar. I know I am only a first time poster here and am lower in the 'pecking order' than Ms. Thompson. Even so, I ask that you at least consider my formal request.

Mr. Bissette, I also met you during the Tour at the Columbus stop in Dave and Ger's hotel suite. I was shocked to see you slander a man who was once your friend and who supported your work enthusiastically. If there is a more personal reason behind this, so be it. None of our business. If it was just a reaction to Dave's essays, than I find it deplorable. If it were to start again, I would withdraw my support from 'Tyrant' and will avoid your works in the future.

Jason Trimmer

#462829 - 04/14/01 11:51 PM Re: Dave Sim Tangents
Charles Reece Offline

Registered: 08/18/99
Posts: 10013
Loc: us of fuckin' a
The Gospel, wherein much Truth is written.

#462830 - 04/15/01 12:00 AM Re: Dave Sim Tangents
Mark Badger Offline

Registered: 07/15/99
Posts: 90
Loc: oaklnd, ca usa
You state,
"On the other hand, after reading all five Tangents on the TCJ board, I believe Mr. Sim has made his arguments very clearly, very eloquently, and in the case of the anecdote about the Reverand King, quite profoundly."

I admit I scanned the first Tangent and read the last simply because I could not deal with the hyperactive emotional writing that demonstarted no facts or logic beyond SIm's own personal feelings. My brain had a hard time believing Sim's arguements in the last section and I had to read to see if anyone could be so nuts.

SIm's case against King is based on his own warped perspective not reality. He wants to get rid of Bayard Rustin one of the key organizers of the 64 March and many other events because he was a commie and a faggot. Does Sim demonstrate that King had the knowledge and skills to organize all these events without a Commie like Rustin? Does he point to other social movements where they accomplished major social change without skilled and trained organizers like the women and commies Sim wants to get rid of? No.

SIm presents the simplistic comic book viewpoint that if King had sat down with Eisenhower and Nixon and discussed it with them as Christian men they would have settled it up nicely. Does Sim explain logically how a black man at that time and place would have access to the Pres of the USA without large pressure in the streets? No. Does he point to other major social upheavals where leaders went against the complete and total grain of society for Christian reasons? No. Does he demonstrate any one time for when Richard Nixon for Christ sakes, every acted in public affairs based on biblical morality? Of course not, Nixon overthrew Goverments, bombed the crap out of people and broke the US Constitution.

Claiming that Nixon would act on Christian principles ranks right up there with people who believe Super heroes are real. It aint based on logic.

Mark Badger

#462831 - 04/15/01 12:05 AM Re: Dave Sim Tangents
Andrew Debly Offline

Registered: 12/15/98
Posts: 244
Loc: Calgary, AB Canada
Steve and Kim,

Go easy on Jason, okay?

#462832 - 04/15/01 12:11 AM Re: Dave Sim Tangents
bob weber Offline

Registered: 10/11/99
Posts: 56
Loc: Erlanger, Ky USA
Jason: Just so you know, Kim Thompson is a man.

#462833 - 04/15/01 12:54 AM Re: Dave Sim Tangents
horst Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 26
Happy Easter!

#462834 - 04/15/01 01:48 AM Re: Dave Sim Tangents
Talon T M Offline

Registered: 03/22/01
Posts: 702
Originally posted by bob weber:
Jason: Just so you know, Kim Thompson is a man.

Well...that remains to be seen.

"I am well aware of you. You are surplus to requirements here. Stick to the Comicon zoo. " -- Warren Ellis

#462835 - 04/15/01 02:33 AM Re: Dave Sim Tangents
savage Offline

Registered: 11/24/98
Posts: 1007
Loc: Minneapolis,MN USA
To Jason Trimmer:

well jeez...I danced the Spirits dance in Kitchener, Chicago, Columbus, Austin, Seattle and gave my tables to Jeromy Cox for the other shows because I ran out of car...I've spent hours chatting with Dave and Gerhard at shows and I still don't think I know the man well enough to say much of anything. Everybody has a con face. (Take that last statement in whichever way seems appropriate.)

For the life of me I have no idea where you see libelous comments from Steve Bissette. The last post I remember on this subject from him was almost a defense for his behaviour in Chicago. And I was there to see some of the fallout from that, I sat across from Dorkin and Dyer all day. And there was a short bit where he defered to Colleen's experience. ...Steve if you get Tyrant done, I'll buy Trimmer's copy as well as my own.

You seem to think that people who have been to his home and hung around with him on a regular basis don't know him as well as a guy who went to a few shows? Nice fantasy world you live in.

...oh and Kim Thompson is most definitely a man....a man who didn't have the common decency to tell me my comic sucked, even after I GAVE him a copy. Oh and get this, the bastard wouldn't let us buy one of those Ignatz bricks off of him even though he was carrying several. AND we offered him good money. NOT those drink coupons and Fuck Bucks that everyone else was trying to give to him..... *SOB*

[This message has been edited by savage (edited 04-15-2001).]
Justin Savage

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