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#462889 - 04/13/01 06:13 PM Re: A question for Colleen Doran
Kady Mae Offline
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Registered: 01/26/99
Posts: 466
Loc: Las Vegas, NV USA
Quote:
Originally posted by colleen:

If there was good erotica aimed at women readers I bet it would sell, but you can't convince most American comics companies to publish anything for women, so why bother to try!


Have you yet read the works of Molly Kielly? It's just too bad it has to be listed in the "adult" Previews catalog instead of in with the regular Fantagraphics stuff, imho.



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#462890 - 04/13/01 06:20 PM Re: A question for Colleen Doran
colleen Offline
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Registered: 05/15/00
Posts: 531
Loc: Newport News VA USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Kady Mae:
Have you yet read the works of Molly Kielly? It's just too bad it has to be listed in the "adult" Previews catalog instead of in with the regular Fantagraphics stuff, imho.




No, I have not, but on your recommendation I will give it a look. Thank you, kindly!


Colleen

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#462891 - 04/14/01 12:02 PM Re: A question for Colleen Doran
Fernando H. Ramirez Offline
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Registered: 02/21/00
Posts: 373
Loc: San Antonio, TX, Bexar
Colleen said: "Lynn Varley is a lucky woman."

I've always thought Frank Miller is a lucky man... to have someone like Lynn Varley collaborating with him on his comics. Her coloring work is PHENOMENAL. I thought her work on 300 was awesome... and I recently got a MOEBIUS piece she colored that was equally impressive. I've always wondered if she does her own paintings... I would love to see them.

And I've always thought Kent Williams is a lucky man... to have Sherilyn Van Valkenburgh (another fantastic colorist / painter) on the team. I remember really being impressed with her work on ENIGMA.

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#462892 - 04/14/01 02:55 PM Re: A question for Colleen Doran
colleen Offline
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Registered: 05/15/00
Posts: 531
Loc: Newport News VA USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Fernando H. Ramirez:
Colleen said: "Lynn Varley is a lucky woman."

I've always thought Frank Miller is a lucky man... to have someone like Lynn Varley collaborating with him on his comics. Her coloring work is PHENOMENAL. I thought her work on 300 was awesome... and I recently got a MOEBIUS piece she colored that was equally impressive. I've always wondered if she does her own paintings... I would love to see them.

And I've always thought Kent Williams is a lucky man... to have Sherilyn Van Valkenburgh (another fantastic colorist / painter) on the team. I remember really being impressed with her work on ENIGMA.



Here! here!

Those are two of the best colorists I've ever seen. I cherish all of my Varley/Miller collaborations and thought the Electra GN they did together was absolutely brilliant.

One thing's for sure--they both show every indication of knowing what to do with their hands.

He's Lucky! She's Lucky! They're lucky! We're All Lucky!

Sorry, Rocky Horror flashback.


colleen

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#462893 - 04/14/01 04:49 PM Re: A question for Colleen Doran
ChrisW Offline
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Registered: 11/25/00
Posts: 10034
Loc: Lincoln, Nebraska USA
I've got a question, probably more for Colleen, but it's still pretty general.
Is it particularly the close-ups that are distasteful, or the emphasis they're given, or the context, or...?

I'm asking this more as a prospective creator who has this unexplicable interest in producing something like quality stories with sex. I remain convinced that, at their best, comics could produce high-quality stories, both in romance and porno genres. [I said it before, I'll say it again; if someone can do good romance comics and market them intelligently, I bet they'd clean up].

But pornography is a trickier concept and (lord knows) I'm not particularly turned on by a page of in-out-in-out-in-out-spoo (or, in film terms, a minute or so of the camera in one place for the same thing). The closest I can get to an applicable term still doesn't sound right, 'hardcore t&a'. Plenty of nudity and so on, as explicit as necessary, but only say a panel of close-up in the context of the over all sex scene, which doesn't even need to, uh, climax.
You know, a page of well drawn sex between characters who have other things to do in the story, in essence filling the need for them nasty pitchers "and then"
the doctor calls, her husband walks in, the terrorists attack, whatever.

Does there seem any potential, artistic or financial in those directions? Would it be not sexy enough for those who want to jerk off, while off-puttingly explicit for the more feminine members of the audience?
Appreciating any thoughts.
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#462894 - 04/14/01 05:34 PM Re: A question for Colleen Doran
savage Offline
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Registered: 11/24/98
Posts: 1007
Loc: Minneapolis,MN USA
The bannisters lucky!

...couldn't help it...
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#462895 - 04/14/01 06:31 PM Re: A question for Colleen Doran
Walt Stone Offline
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Registered: 01/01/01
Posts: 496
Loc: Katy, Tx
While I know I can't answer Chris' question in regards to comics, I can at least talk a bit about "erotic" literature for women. First off, I believe the best known erotica for women currently published in prose is a line of books called Black Lace. While there are others, Black Lace seems to be doing a small but enthusiastic business. They're published in England. My wife, in "researching" how the steamier romances might be done, "discovered" these. It's a small secret, but there's a thriving trade in used Black Lace books, and chances are good that if you look for the more collectible of these books on Ebay or elsewhere, you could run across books that at one time came through our mailbox.

But from what I've read of the Black Lace books, if they were turned straight from prose to graphic novel, they'd be, uh... pretty graphic indeed.

Publishing houses in N.America have decided to publish erotic literature for women. My wife's five books for Harl have been for the sexy Temptation line. The sex occurs twice in the book(sometimes once more)and was rarely interrupted by the husband... These were character books, and in almost every case, both characters were destined to be monogamous to each other - the sex is supposed to be central to the development of the relationship in most romances... this is definately a tried and true marketing ploy. Sex for sex's sake might be great for us guys, but women become repeat customers to authors that provide meaningful sex in a story.

The new Blaze line of books turns up the heat for Harlequin readers one more notch this August. Another publisher, Kensington, is currently publishing an erotic historical line of books.(Brava?) The bar for the amount of sex in both of these lines has been taken away, and there's no telling what will happen... er, sales wise, that is.

My wife, Mica, has given workshops on the topic of sex to other romance writers; however taking the pulse of the buying public is always a crapshoot.

Chris, you seem to be talking about putting a good sex scene(s) as a good dramatic moment in an adventure story - perhaps even making sex a main part of the story itself. And I'll agree that you might want to only show about as many body parts more than the average R rated movie - but I'd also add that showing mounting passion within one sex encounter has got to be tough to do... and I'll respect anyone who can do it well. Whether you make it an 'R' or harder.

Long rant, I know... so I'll end this here. I'm not an author or an artist, but one thing I do know - often, the best sex occurs between the ears. The imagination of the reader is triggered strongly with the anticipation of the event.

Walt Stone

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#462896 - 04/14/01 08:56 PM Re: A question for Colleen Doran
colleen Offline
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Registered: 05/15/00
Posts: 531
Loc: Newport News VA USA
The "spoo" comment slayed me! Pretty funny!

One thing's for sure, women are sick of seeing stuff where the women are gorgeous and the men are--not. I have no objection whatsoever to beautiful women in comics or anywhere else. I have an objection to not being given equal ogle time. If you want omen to read your stuff, the men had better be as appealing to women as the women are to men. I am sick of stories of grotesquely drawn men portrayed as the love objects of wildly gorgeous women. I mean really. Fair is fair! We want Fabio...or a reasonable facsimile.

As for the closeups, etc., I agree that the more left to the imagination the better. Women like romance, and my bet is that a lot of men would enjoy a little more romance in their lives, too. Attractive characters, beautiful settings, and people who genuinely care about each other is interesting and erotic. Too much concentration on bodily functions is about as interesting as concentrating on any other bodily functions. Out of context, no one wants to be around that, do they? So, out of the context of a romantic setting, I'm not interested in watching a couple of people get in touch with their body fluids.

Geez. I sound like a dirty old broad. Oh well.


colleen

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#462897 - 04/14/01 08:58 PM Re: A question for Colleen Doran
colleen Offline
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Registered: 05/15/00
Posts: 531
Loc: Newport News VA USA
The feather duster's lucky!


colleen

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#462898 - 04/14/01 10:35 PM Re: A question for Colleen Doran
savage Offline
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Registered: 11/24/98
Posts: 1007
Loc: Minneapolis,MN USA
She'll be lucky if she doesn't get splinters!

...AAGH!
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