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#464967 - 05/22/01 10:21 AM Re: Hey Pat,
Walt Stone Offline
Member

Registered: 01/01/01
Posts: 496
Loc: Katy, Tx
While I realize that the discussion involving the book "Moby Dick" was a couple of pages ago, I saw this last night on the back of a writers' trade mag:

A manuscript and the title page reads:
Moby Dick
or
The Whale
by Herman Melville

And under that is a sticky note, obstensively by an editor who's commenting to the author. On it reads:

Dear Mr. Melville
Whale books don't sell
How about an alien?
Or a dinosaur?
Or an alien dinosaur?

The ad continues at the bottom of the page, and begins with the caption:
Would Melville get published today?
The text continues:
Maybe not- if he had to deal with today's publishing bureaucracy. That's why Time Warner Books created iPublish.com

The rest continues the ad for iPublish.com

interesting that the sentiment expressed by some using Moby Dick as an example dovetails with some of the thought processes that are expressed in this and related threads.

Not that I would want to use iPublish, but indeed, would that exact book, now taught as a classic, make a splash in today's publishing world?

Walt Stone

[This message has been edited by Walt Stone (edited 05-22-2001).]

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#464968 - 05/22/01 04:13 PM Re: Hey Pat,
gene phillips Offline
Member

Registered: 09/30/99
Posts: 5910
Loc: Houston, TX
Charles:
On Superman's inability to die, being a serial character: I've seen Umberto Eco hold forth on how serial characters lack the same serious ramifications as Beowulf and Robin Hood and suchlike because the serial characters, being administered by modern corporations, are going to be kept going as long as they are popular, and will never have a true "death story" that culminates their lives. And I don't buy it. This gets us into deeper waters than one can go on a messageboard (though I'm tempted to do an article on it somewhere), but my basic position is that Eco is ascribing to archaic audiences more consciousness of this heroic unity than I think they actually had. I think he's reading archaic stories wrongly, as if they were unified literary masterworks in which there is a clear arc from early life to life-experience to (sometimes) death. Archaic tales are much more fragmentary in nature. Yes, they had "stories of the death of the hero" a la Heracles and Beowulf and Cuchullain, but in between the birth and death of the hero one could in theory tell any number of stories about that hero. For instance, taletellers did not stop making up stories of Heracles in the middle of his life just because the tale of his death had been told; one or two such tales date from Roman times, long after the fatal "shirt of Nessus" episode had been set down. I see this "elastic middle" being the place where most serial heroes occupy, and I think it quite possible that ethical or aesthetic statements can be made within these type of stories, even if the readers has good reason to suspect that the hero is not "really" at risk (which is generally true whether he's super-powered or just a tough human being like Mike Hammer). But maybe we need another thread for this kind of thing, or else I need to write that article.

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#464969 - 05/22/01 04:23 PM Re: Hey Pat,
gene phillips Offline
Member

Registered: 09/30/99
Posts: 5910
Loc: Houston, TX
Pat:
I'm not going to say more about comparing HATE and CATCHER, since Pete Charles did a good job noting the similarities. (And BTW, I agree with him that HATE is not a work on the same level as CATCHER; I was only comparing subject matter.)

On another note: while I sympathize with some of the verbal shellacking you get here, I have to admit it's kind of funny that you can't entertain the idea that a text can "talk" but can entertain the idea that the South won the Civil War. I think it comes down to the fact that you like your metaphor but not Reece's.

And though I no longer remember whether you or someone else here brought up HATE first-- why would you pick on it as pretentious, when there's genuinely-pretentious works like EIGHTBALL to rake over the coals? (I have to assume you're not conflating them in the amusing fashion of Dave Sim, who combined them into a title called HATEBALL.)

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#464970 - 05/22/01 06:14 PM Re: Hey Pat,
Pete Charles Offline
Member

Registered: 02/03/01
Posts: 387
Loc: Lost Angeles, Cafilornia
I certainly hope that nobody grows tired of reading or posting to this thread. Y'know why? That would mean they've come down with...


.


.


.

.

HeyPatitis, see?

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#464971 - 05/22/01 06:19 PM Re: Hey Pat,
Pete Charles Offline
Member

Registered: 02/03/01
Posts: 387
Loc: Lost Angeles, Cafilornia
Or should that be read with a hispanic inflection; "HeyPatitis, si?"

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#464972 - 05/22/01 06:34 PM Re: Hey Pat,
Samuel Catalino Offline
Member

Registered: 04/04/99
Posts: 4447
Thanks for the answer, I was sort of looking for Pat to answer that one, though. It is the same conclusion I have come to, but I wanted to hear his side...

Pete,

What I mean by the cover is not necessarily the artwork, but the notes around the book telling me what it is about. Reviews help in reaching my decision.


As for sampling Fantagraphics products,well, I don't sample all of what Marvel and DC put out either. I don't even remember the last X-Men comic I picked up (no, Wolverine and Ultimate doesn't count!), but if folks like them, more power to them....

I just ordered Opus 2, and have several Prince Valiant books on my shelf as well.
The Eros line doesn't move me in any way, though. Once in a while there is something in TCJ that looks interesting, and I pick that up once in a while. Do I know of everything that Fantagraphics publishes? Nope, no more than I do of Marvel, Dark Horse, DC, Image. Cross Gen I can still follow, though.
_________________________
"If we lose a hundred troops a week, then Dean will be our next Prez." Jack V, avid Dean supporter with no concern for the troops.

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#464973 - 05/22/01 07:12 PM Re: Hey Pat,
Rory D. Root Offline
Member

Registered: 09/12/99
Posts: 628
Loc: Berkeley,Ca.,USA
Quote:
Originally posted by gene phillips:
(I have to assume you're not conflating them in the amusing fashion of Dave Sim, who combined them into a title called HATEBALL.)


A title that FBI later published in a small edition to give away to viewers of a MTV animation festival. A cute little book with work by Clowes and Bagge.




------------------
Comic Relief: THE Comic Bookstore
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Comic Relief: THE Comic Bookstore

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#464974 - 05/23/01 10:03 AM Re: Hey Pat,
Charles Reece Offline
Member

Registered: 08/18/99
Posts: 10013
Loc: us of fuckin' a
Gene: "But maybe we need another thread for this kind of thing, or else I need to write that article."

whoosh
_________________________
The Gospel, wherein much Truth is written.

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#464975 - 05/23/01 10:05 AM Re: Hey Pat,
Charles Reece Offline
Member

Registered: 08/18/99
Posts: 10013
Loc: us of fuckin' a
Gene: "But maybe we need another thread for this kind of thing, or else I need to write that article."

whoosh
_________________________
The Gospel, wherein much Truth is written.

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#464976 - 05/23/01 10:09 AM Re: Hey Pat,
Charles Reece Offline
Member

Registered: 08/18/99
Posts: 10013
Loc: us of fuckin' a
things are screwy around here, so I suppose that tomorrow there will be 2 of my posts saying the same thing as this one above:

Gene: "But maybe we need another thread for this kind of thing, or else I need to write that article."

whoosh
_________________________
The Gospel, wherein much Truth is written.

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