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#469046 - 06/22/01 05:48 PM Kevin Smith
iusetobekb Offline
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Registered: 06/03/01
Posts: 282
Loc: hawaii
I just saw dogma last night.not so good.I also read the first four green arrow comics.also,not so good.I think he's been overrated because people so want acceptance of the comics we read,you know from the stranger sitting next to us in the book store or where ever.he's not bad but he's no garth ennis.anyone one agree?

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#469047 - 06/22/01 06:12 PM Re: Kevin Smith
DeForgeo Offline
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Registered: 06/17/01
Posts: 74
Kevin Smith is overrated, but I've enjoyed most of his comic stuff and all the movies he made. I certainly prefer him over Garth Ennis (who I currently think is the most overrated comic writer in the business [img]/resources/ubb/smile.gif[/img] )

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#469048 - 06/22/01 08:01 PM Re: Kevin Smith
iusetobekb Offline
Member

Registered: 06/03/01
Posts: 282
Loc: hawaii
ok,try frank miller or some one else,it just baffles me how many are ready to blow kevin smith for his work,the best of which is in another field [movies] ,and those are'nt great either.kevins work is ok in comics.the old zorro comics written by the disney staff writers in the 60's were ok too.garth is over rated but he's better than smith.

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#469049 - 06/22/01 11:31 PM Re: Kevin Smith
peter mcdonalds of burger king land Offline
Member

Registered: 06/07/01
Posts: 7016
I liked CLERKS, didn't see MALLRATS, thought CHASING AMY was so-so, loved DOGMA. Haven't read his DAREDEVIL yet, and the jury is still out on GA. I think you've got a point; we're probably all guilty of trying to "legitimize" comics in the eyes of others by pointing out connections to other forms of entertainment. It's pretty sad when your average Adam Sandler or Britney Spears fan wouldn't be caught dead reading a comic because it's considered "childish"...

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#469050 - 06/23/01 12:02 AM Re: Kevin Smith
Tobacco Joe Offline
Member

Registered: 06/06/01
Posts: 82
It's happened before. When it comes right down to it, Harlan Ellison isn't really that strong of a writer, either, yet comics embraced him just as fiercely back in the '60s (maybe it was '70s) and beyond as they do Kevin Smith these days. Why? Because Harlan built his career outside of the comics industry (in the fields of sci-fi fiction and television), and brought the attention of those larger, more "legitimate" fields into comics with him.

It's the same thing with Kevin Smith. He's a popular creator who got famous in a much more widespread medium (movies) than comics, and has brought attention to the comics world through his films (and later through actually writing comics). He's not particularly talented (Clerks was great, Mallrats was lazy, Chasing Amy was great, and Dogma was the most overhyped, overblown, and overly ambitious movie of its year), but he is recognized by more "real world" people than just about anyone in the comics industry outside of possibly Stan Lee. Naturally, people who want comics to be "legitimized" by "real world" acceptance are going to cling to his fat ass just as desperately as Jason Mewes does.

I was in the audience the night of the 2000 Wizard World Fan Awards (or whatever they call them) when Kevin Smith won Best Writer for Daredevil over Garth Ennis and Preacher, and I am proud to say that I very loudly cough/yelled "BULLSH*T!" as Smith took the stage, ala Animal House.

[This message has been edited by Tobacco Joe (edited 06-23-2001).]

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#469051 - 06/23/01 01:12 AM Re: Kevin Smith
iusetobekb Offline
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Registered: 06/03/01
Posts: 282
Loc: hawaii
i thought i was going to get ripped on this topic.i'm glad you guys agree.i'm not saying he's not a good writer,he's just not a legend or whatever,hell what's even worse about the constant ass kissing is he's not really famous,how many people outside of your comic click actually know kevin smith?he's more like ben affleck's buddy kinda famous.i think he gets great casts for his movies and they carry his scripts,as for directing,he's no kubrick.i don't like his green arrow,daredevil i liked.

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#469052 - 06/23/01 01:24 AM Re: Kevin Smith
iusetobekb Offline
Member

Registered: 06/03/01
Posts: 282
Loc: hawaii
Quote:
Originally posted by Tobacco Joe:

It's the same thing with Kevin Smith. He's a popular creator who got famous in a much more widespread medium (movies) than comics, and has brought attention to the comics world through his films (and later through actually writing comics). He's not particularly talented (Clerks was great, Mallrats was lazy, Chasing Amy was great, Naturally, people who want comics to be "legitimized" by "real world" acceptance are going to cling to his fat ass just as desperately as Jason Mewes does.

Joe (edited 06-23-2001).][/B]


i have to say i laughed pretty hard at mewes in dogma and chasing amy .and kevin writes good script when he gets the actor he envisioned the part for to play it.only he could know mewes enough to write for him.also tabbac..so that was you...

[This message has been edited by iusetobekb (edited 06-23-2001).]

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#469053 - 06/23/01 07:28 AM Re: Kevin Smith
NatGertler Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/99
Posts: 4618
Quote:
Originally posted by Tobacco Joe:
I was in the audience the night of the 2000 Wizard World Fan Awards (or whatever they call them) when Kevin Smith won Best Writer for Daredevil over Garth Ennis and Preacher, and I am proud to say that I very loudly cough/yelled "BULLSH*T!" as Smith took the stage, ala Animal House.
And it was soooo kind of you to throw profanity at a guy for his crime of being popular.

So you and usedtakb don't enjoy his work as much as other people do. Big whoop. If ya don't like it, don't read it. If you expect everyone else's tastes to match yours, you can expect a lifetime of disappointments.

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#469054 - 06/23/01 07:53 AM Re: Kevin Smith
Tobacco Joe Offline
Member

Registered: 06/06/01
Posts: 82
Quote:
Originally posted by NatGertler:
If you expect everyone else's tastes to match yours, you can expect a lifetime of disappointments.


When did I say that I expect everyone else's tastes to match mine? I said I find Kevin Smith to be overrated, and cough/yelled "bullsh*t" when he won an award for writing, therefore vocalizing my displeasure with his writing rather than keeping it bottled up inside.

As far as posting to tell me and KB that you've read our posts about not liking Smith's work and are now posting to tell us that you don't like our posts, and furthermore that, if we don't like his work, we should just not read it... Well, then, why are posting about not liking OUR "written work" instead of just not reading it? You can't very well expect people to take advice that you don't follow.

But you're right, Nat - you shouldn't expect everyone's tastes to match yours. In other words, some people like to yell bullsh*t in a crowded room, and some don't. If you don't like it, don't do it. [img]/resources/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

[This message has been edited by Tobacco Joe (edited 06-23-2001).]

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#469055 - 06/23/01 08:34 AM Re: Kevin Smith
Samuel Catalino Offline
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Registered: 04/04/99
Posts: 4447
Kevin Smith?

Isn't he descended from Joseph Smith, the founder of the Mormon Church?
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#469056 - 06/23/01 10:00 AM Re: Kevin Smith
NatGertler Offline
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Registered: 07/10/99
Posts: 4618
Quote:
I said I find Kevin Smith to be overrated, and cough/yelled "bullsh*t" when he won an award for writing, therefore vocalizing my displeasure with his writing rather than keeping it bottled up inside.
Writing works that you didn't happen to enjoy is neither a sin nor a crime. Yelling curses at the man, particularly at a moment when he has earned a little celebration (yes, earned; even if you don't like his work, he did get the votes of those who did) is pathetic, ugly, and serves no good. If you truly need to go around loudly cursing at people for their popularity as your way of unburdening yourself, then you should seek professional treatment.

And I don't see criticizing a personal, purposeful verbal assault the same as randomly cursing someone for writing fiction that you simply didn't enjoy.

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#469057 - 06/23/01 10:08 AM Re: Kevin Smith
madget Offline
Member

Registered: 05/11/01
Posts: 4870
Quote:
Originally posted by NatGertler:
[QUOTE]
And I don't see criticizing a personal, purposeful verbal assault the same as randomly cursing someone for writing fiction that you simply didn't enjoy.


I'd wager money that it had less to do with what he thought of Smith's writing and more to do with the fact that he wanted to look cool at the time, or impress his friends or something. [img]/resources/ubb/wink.gif[/img]

K

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#469058 - 06/23/01 01:14 PM Re: Kevin Smith
Earth2Jeff Offline
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Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 33
Pesonally, I love Kevin Smith's movies and his work in comics. I think he's got a knack for hilarious dialogue, comes up with some great story ideas, and best of all, doesn't take himself too damn seriously. (An attribute I appreciate in creative folks.) But I also recognize the fact that not everyone has the same tastes. Things would be pretty boring if we did.

Not quite sure I understand this bit about everyone kissing the guy's ass though. How are we "kissing his ass?" Because he's won awards, gets featured in Wizard all the time and his comics sell well? So, are we also kissing Brian Michael Bendis' ass? And Alan Moore's? And Warren Ellis'? And...well, you get the point. The fact is, the guy's got a lot of fans, and yeah, I'm sure his previous work in movies hasn't exactly hurt his success. You don't like his work? That's cool...not a thing wrong with that. And anyone that tells you otherwise is wrong. Ya like what ya like and that's your prerogative.

But that bit about yelling "Bullshit!" at Smith from the audience as he's accepting an award? It amazes me that, though everyone is entitled to thier own opinions, some people think that entitles them to burdening everyone with it at any given time. There's a time and place, and that just wasn't it. Maybe you don't like the guy's work, and like I said, that's fine. But your actions demonstrated a complete lack of common courtesy and basic social skills. And unless you happen to be 11 years old, I'd say THAT was bullshit.

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#469059 - 06/23/01 01:51 PM Re: Kevin Smith
Walt Stone Offline
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Registered: 01/01/01
Posts: 496
Loc: Katy, Tx
The latest movie from the pen of Kevin Smith kinda has a few things to say about anonymous posters on the internet...

Funny thing, about some of Smith's characters. One could say some of them are drawn from real life... including, perhaps, those that would cough out "Bullshit" during an awards ceremony.

As to the general topic, Kevin has cultivated an audience. It's debatable whether the size of the audience is increasing with his every work. I suspect it has to do with the nature of the characters that are in his creations. Most of his movie works are character based entities. Relate to at least one of the characters and you'll find it easy to enjoy the show.

Walt

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#469060 - 06/23/01 05:49 PM Re: Kevin Smith
iusetobekb Offline
Member

Registered: 06/03/01
Posts: 282
Loc: hawaii
i love how people misspell my name then have a problem with MY grammer,anyway,i never said i did'nt think kevin was not a good writer,he is,even though his green arrow is not a fav of mine.but he's not as good as his hype,in comics,read what i write ,it's in english,if you can understand hunk enough to reply you can understand me.nat.i still insist that people like the fame factor[if you call him famous]of kevin smith more than his writing.i bet if ben affelck or keanu reeves wrote a comic every one would ride these guys,even if it made the early issues of spawn seem coherent in comparison.you people get to sensitive when some one does'nt give your heros a good B.J. in a public forum.maybe they should give a p.r push to a guy like peter david on his new works like they give kevin smith,in comics we all know who earned the accolades and who was given them,NO?and i don't think tabbaccojoe heckled smith,i was'nt there but the way they bow to smith tabbaco would'nt be here now.but if he did so what?if people don't heckle you it means you did'nt strike a nerve with your work,good or bad,kevin smith got tabbacos attention which means his work did it's job.also,i watched Dogma again,not being catholic i missed alot the first time but knowing a little more about religion the second pass i have to say i like the movie ,it's funny,if you did'nt like it the first time give it another go.ok.later.

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#469061 - 06/23/01 06:20 PM Re: Kevin Smith
JayMesk Offline
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Registered: 05/02/01
Posts: 45
So, are we also kissing Brian Michael Bendis' ass? And Alan Moore's? And Warren Ellis'?
-----------------------------------------------

Yes. Sure,why not?

There are a whole lot of asses being kissed out there but so what. To me the real crime is that not one of those asses belongs to Jay Mesk.

Dammit! Ain't my ass kissable?! Come on! Make with the smooches!

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#469062 - 06/23/01 11:02 PM Re: Kevin Smith
Alex D Offline
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Registered: 06/03/01
Posts: 791
Loc: Las Vegas, NV. USA
I personally like most of Smith's movies and think he's ok at writing comics.

If you look at what he's chosing to write as far as comics, it's understandable why he seems to come off as a big deal. He's writing characters who are/where considered "second stringers" and following mediocre writing. If he was following Miller or heck, even Bendis,on Daredevil his work wouldn't have caused that much of a stir.I liked Bendis' writing on DD more than his.

On Green Arrow I'm enjoying his work so far but it's probably moreso because of the mystery of trying to figure out what's going on more than anything. I'm curious to see if he can keep me around when it's time to tell straightforward stories.

I'm not saying for a minute that he isn't a good writer, but he's not as great in comics as his rep makes him out to be (so far).

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#469063 - 06/24/01 03:25 AM Re: Kevin Smith
Barry Offline
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Registered: 05/27/01
Posts: 19
Loc: Singapore
I think Kevin smith isn't a bad writer,his comics work has been entertaining,but nothing soooo spectacular...I mean,his dialogue is pretty sharp...but some of his stories have plot holes that don't really makes sense....

Its the same with J Micheal Straczynki,his writing is good and capable but its nothing so spectucular....

Its just Wizard hyping their stuff and making Comic Gods out of them.....
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"I made a vow,to my Parents,that I would read the city of the evil,that took their lives."

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#469064 - 06/24/01 07:31 PM Re: Kevin Smith
iusetobekb Offline
Member

Registered: 06/03/01
Posts: 282
Loc: hawaii
no kevins pretty good,just give some pr to people who bring in the regulars,like peter david,garth,whoever too.they media blitz kevins stuff inside the industry,but that is''nt gonna bring people into comic shops who don't already go.i could see if they hit rolling stone and Et,stuff like that with smith,cause then it would draw some attention.we all buy his books already,go get new people with him. [img]/resources/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

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#469065 - 06/26/01 12:21 PM Re: Kevin Smith
Nightcrawler13 Offline
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Registered: 05/31/01
Posts: 43
Loc: Mesquite, TX USA
Does anyone remember who was writing DD before KS?? He may just be a name but that name relaunched DD and I really liked his take. Now that BMB has taken that title over I think DD has reached a peak because of Joe Q pushing that name out and following it up with great writing.

The fact that people are even discussing his writing here means that Marvel did what it set out to do, create a popular title from a second tier character.
Yes DD was 2nd tier before Marvel Knights.

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#469066 - 06/26/01 03:13 PM Re: Kevin Smith
Earth2Jeff Offline
Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 33
Quote:
Originally posted by Nightcrawler13:
Does anyone remember who was writing DD before KS??


Actually, yeah...Karl Kesel and then Joe Kelley had rather good runs at the end of the previous series. There were also some good artists on board during their runs: Cary Nord, Ariel Olivetti, and even a couple of issues by Gene Colan! [img]/resources/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

But you're still right, man. DD's back on the map for the first time in a loooong while!

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#469067 - 06/28/01 04:52 AM Re: Kevin Smith
Billyboy Offline
Member

Registered: 05/31/01
Posts: 72
Loc: London, England
Hello Kyle... [img]/resources/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

Thought Smith's Daredevil story was fairly good, but that might have been because of the Quesada artwork instead. Who knows?
Haven't read a lot of his other work so I can't say definitively, but he does seem to get more praise than he deserves when you look at his amount of output in the comic arena. Hasn't yet proven himself there at this time.
And his films? Haven't seen any, don't intend to. Not really my cup of scotch.
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#469068 - 06/29/01 08:55 PM Re: Kevin Smith
iusetobekb Offline
Member

Registered: 06/03/01
Posts: 282
Loc: hawaii
hey billy [img]/resources/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]-
the artwork by Q was wonderful,many people think Q is not a storyteller,i beg to differ.

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#469069 - 06/30/01 03:23 AM Re: Kevin Smith
Matt_Fabb Offline
Member

Registered: 06/29/01
Posts: 279
Loc: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
Quote:
blitz kevins stuff inside the industry,but that is''nt gonna bring people into comic shops who don't already go.


I disagree, as I've known quite a few loyal Kevin Smith fans who don't collect comics but have picked up DD and are picking up Green Arrow just because Kevin Smith is writing it. Kevin Smith has a cult like following that pay attention to what he does and some of them will buy just about anything that he's involved in. Also with a new film coming out (Silent Bob & Jay Strike Back) this summer he's going to get all sorts press and while he will be no doubt be focusing on his new movie I wouldn't be surprised if he plugged the comics he's done, which will probably once again get some more people into his comics who might not normally pick up a comic book.

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#469070 - 06/30/01 02:21 PM Re: Kevin Smith
iusetobekb Offline
Member

Registered: 06/03/01
Posts: 282
Loc: hawaii
Quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Fabb:
[B] I disagree, as I've known quite a few loyal Kevin Smith fans who don't collect comics but have picked up DD and are picking up Green Arrow just because Kevin Smith is writing it.


but how do they know about it since marvel and Dc only advertise to a direct market,so they must already read comics,i just think inside the comic community they should push guys who have earned it over the years to us.if they were hitting the rolling stone or whatever movie mag's that are out there,then Kevin Smith is a stronger pull,because it would get people in the shops that normally did'nt go.

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#469071 - 06/30/01 03:07 PM Re: Kevin Smith
NatGertler Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/99
Posts: 4618
Quote:
but how do they know about it since marvel and Dc only advertise to a direct market,so they must already read comics
No, that logic doesn't follow. There is all sorts of promotion, press mentions, and of course fans just telling one another that serve to spread the word. If you're a Kevin Smith fan and go to www.NewsAskew.com -- the fan and information site for Smith and his works -- you'll see a lot of talk about the comics even if you have never read a comic.

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#469072 - 06/30/01 05:28 PM Re: Kevin Smith
Vinnie Offline
Member

Registered: 05/18/01
Posts: 48
Loc: Livonia, Michigan USA
Hey, Nat! I hope you're sitting down for this. Ready?

I agree totally with everything you've said in this thread!

Who woulda thunk, eh? [img]/resources/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

I, too, know a number of people who got into comics (or BACK into them) as a result of all the coverage about Kevin and his work. And because of that exposure, each of them has picked up additional titles not written by Kevin.

So if some people want to think that the companies have been kissing Kevin's ass (for whatever reason), that's their right and privilege.

I, on the other hand, will accept any help we can get to bring new readers into what has become a dying industry!

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#469073 - 06/30/01 06:16 PM Re: Kevin Smith
iusetobekb Offline
Member

Registered: 06/03/01
Posts: 282
Loc: hawaii
Quote:
Originally posted by NatGertler:
Quote:
but how do they know about it since marvel and Dc only advertise to a direct market,so they must already read comics
No, that logic doesn't follow. There is all sorts of promotion, press mentions, and of course fans just telling one another that serve to spread the word. If you're a Kevin Smith fan and go to www.NewsAskew.com -- the fan and information site for Smith and his works -- you'll see a lot of talk about the comics even if you have never read a comic.


It does'nt make sense that they should don't promote kevin to an out side market,dc is doing that a little[very little]marvel totally wasted an opportunity with daredevil to advertise to a wider audience,although if joe were in charge then he may have tried to milk it more outside the comicbook shops.in a year kevin smith will move on and comics will have missed a good shot at outside marketing,cause as much as he loves comics[you can tell he does]he can reach a bigger audience with his day job.kevins overhyped to the people who already know he's in comics,why not go outside,i don't get how people would argue against that.oh well.

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#469074 - 06/30/01 08:00 PM Re: Kevin Smith
wcrupe Offline
Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 154
Loc: Gaithersburg, MD, Good Ol' USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Samuel Catalino:
Kevin Smith?

Isn't he descended from Joseph Smith, the founder of the Mormon Church?


From what I understand they don't have record as to which of the wives, however.

A classic case of not knowing who the mother is.

After reading the script on the 'net for Dogma I can say that the movie had the worst editing job possible. Has there been an unedited version come out yet?
_________________________
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Bill Crupe

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#469075 - 06/30/01 09:31 PM Re: Kevin Smith
NatGertler Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/99
Posts: 4618
Well, an "unedited" version of a movie would have the same scene 20 times, and would probably take all day to watch if you could stand it! However, there is now the deluxe DVD set, which includes 100 minutes of deleted scenes (think about that -- it's a whole additional movie's worth of footage!) as well as two commentaries (cast'n'crew, and just-crew... although Smith is on the just-crew one, when he's also in the cast), outtakes, and assorted other bells and/or whistles. Check it out here . I just got my copy today, but I haven't had time to watch it. (Beware of used DVD listings -- they're probably for the original DVD release, which had just the film and the trailer, no goodies.)

(Later addition to clarify: the 100 minutes of extra scenes are on a separate DVD; they are not integrated into the film. Time to get your VCR and start splicing together your own version -- although the music cues would be all wonky!)

[This message has been edited by NatGertler (edited 06-30-2001).]

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#469076 - 07/01/01 01:02 AM Re: Kevin Smith
Matt_Fabb Offline
Member

Registered: 06/29/01
Posts: 279
Loc: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
Quote:
It does'nt make sense that they should don't promote kevin to an out side market,dc is doing that a little[very little]marvel totally wasted an opportunity with daredevil to advertise to a wider audience,although if joe were in charge then he may have tried to milk it more outside the comicbook shops.in a year kevin smith will move on and comics will have missed a good shot at outside marketing,cause as much as he loves comics[you can tell he does]he can reach a bigger audience with his day job.kevins overhyped to the people who already know he's in comics,why not go outside,i don't get how people would argue against that.oh well.

Completely agree with you here. Both DC and Marvel should had promoted it outside the normal comic book market. Actually, come to think of it, why don't comic companies do more outside advertising to being with? I'm not sure how much some of the average super-hero comics would do, but I could see Vertigo and other "alternative" comics getting a boast by some ads in non-comic related magazines.
Also a sidenote, when there was a rumor that Kevin Smith's Green Arrow series was headed the silver screen, a lot of the movie new sources reported on it mentioning Smith's success with the first issue Green Arrow. So Smith is bringing in a bit of outside press. Also as mentioned before I'm sure the comics he's done so far will also get some attention when he's promoting his next film.
Also about Kevin Smith moving on... I doubt he's going to be leaving the comic medium any time soon. While it will probably always come second to his filming career, I think he will continue doing a series every now and again. Rumors are already circulating on what his next comic project will be.

Quote:
Well, an "unedited" version of a movie would have the same scene 20 times, and would probably take all day to watch if you could stand it! However, there is now the deluxe DVD set, which includes 100 minutes of deleted scenes


The past couple of Kevin Smith's movies have started off as 3 hours long before getting edited down to around the 2 hour mark. Of course the way the DVD market is these days any cut footage gets saved to be put out on the DVD. As mentioned the deleted scenes can only be seen separately and not watched together in the film. However, a few people do get to see Kevin Smith's extended films as he usually screens the film as it's being edited down, which is partly used to help him decide which scenes need to be cut.

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#469077 - 07/01/01 04:41 AM Re: Kevin Smith
krackkomik Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 23
Loc: Austin, TX. USA
I like witty-banter, so I like em' both.
ennis-preacher ruled-tangled web is ok too--his hellblazers ruled-punisher really punishes and ennis kills all the right people.
smith-daredevil was good, but killed a couple people I like, chasing dogma is ok, enjoying green arrow, hope he doesn't kill anyone.

------------------
movie picks: a man called hero-momento-the third man-Unbreakable-bullit.
I BELIEVE COMIC BOOK HEROES WALK THE EARTH
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#469078 - 07/01/01 04:31 PM Re: Kevin Smith
iusetobekb Offline
Member

Registered: 06/03/01
Posts: 282
Loc: hawaii
thanks matt,everyone takes everything i write as hostile,but i don't get why they complain about a shrinking audience but never reach out of the direct market,kevin smith good for that,he's got alot of famous friends who could give qoutes on the work like reviewers do his movies.alot of little girls might pick up a smith book if ben affleck endorses them.not a testament to the writing but market him anyway.

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#469079 - 07/01/01 06:15 PM Re: Kevin Smith
wcrupe Offline
Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 154
Loc: Gaithersburg, MD, Good Ol' USA
Quote:
Originally posted by NatGertler:
Well, an "unedited" version of a movie would have the same scene 20 times, and would probably take all day to watch if you could stand it! However, there is now the deluxe DVD set, which includes 100 minutes of deleted scenes (think about that -- it's a whole additional movie's worth of footage!)


Sorry, I meant edited as in "edited for length." But 100 more minutes? [img]/resources/ubb/eek.gif[/img]

I didn't realize it was supposed to be a miniseries [img]/resources/ubb/wink.gif[/img]

I know at least one scene was taken out of the theatrical version for VHS. I didn't see anything added, though.

Bill
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Bill Crupe

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#469080 - 07/01/01 06:52 PM Re: Kevin Smith
S.D. Moose Offline
Member

Registered: 05/10/01
Posts: 484
Loc: Carmi, IL, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by iusetobekb:
thanks matt,everyone takes everything i write as hostile,but i don't get why they complain about a shrinking audience but never reach out of the direct market,kevin smith good for that,he's got alot of famous friends who could give qoutes on the work like reviewers do his movies.alot of little girls might pick up a smith book if ben affleck endorses them.not a testament to the writing but market him anyway.


I believe Smith's comic work has recieved coverage in Entertainment Weekly (though in conjunction with the release of Dogma or about that time.) The comics companies have no doubt send press releases to major outlets when Smith and creators of Buffy and Babylon 5 work for them, but then it was in the hands of those outlets who may or may not use the info. As for advertising "big name from outside comics" is writing (title), not only is the cost of advertising in relation to the return a concern but what of "longtime comic book writer" who has never been given this amount of attention by the publisher. They have to be kept happy as well. I'm sure some readers of Neil Gaiman's outside work have gotten into comics because of him as have readers of Peter David's outside material. No doubt their comics work also led to the press releases that went out for Smith but due to whatever reason, the story was only found in Comics related media and those outside the "club" found out from fellow fans who knew. Word of mouth is king.
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Sean Dulaney
Writer, F.N. Stein, Consulting Detective, DREAH: Queen Of Thieves, and Kendar's Gift in DIGITAL WEBBING PRESENTS

http://www.digitalwebbing.net/comics/

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#469081 - 07/01/01 08:21 PM Re: Kevin Smith
iusetobekb Offline
Member

Registered: 06/03/01
Posts: 282
Loc: hawaii
agreed,word of mouth is king,for but only if the base is large enough and vocal enough,which most comic readers are not.a blurb in et weekly was not brought about by marvel or dc.A full page ad could'nt hurt.a time warner corporation like Dc could get all kinds of help to derail costs.marvel had a sucessful movie and cartoon spinoffs ,but most watchers don't know if the comics exsist.

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#469082 - 07/02/01 04:09 PM Re: Kevin Smith
S.D. Moose Offline
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Registered: 05/10/01
Posts: 484
Loc: Carmi, IL, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by iusetobekb:
agreed,word of mouth is king,for but only if the base is large enough and vocal enough,which most comic readers are not.a blurb in et weekly was not brought about by marvel or dc.A full page ad could'nt hurt.a time warner corporation like Dc could get all kinds of help to derail costs.marvel had a sucessful movie and cartoon spinoffs ,but most watchers don't know if the comics exsist.


But there are comics readers who are sports fans, there are comic fans into wrestling. Kevin is selling because the comics readers in his fan base tipped off the non-comics readers. (Of course this worked against NFLSuperPro, comics/football fan told football only fan it sucked and they stayed away. [img]/resources/ubb/smile.gif[/img] ) Granted, Marvel has had two successful film projects in Blade and X-Men but the characters and concepts are from a time of greater readership, some of whom have moved on. The general public only knew them to be comic-related films if they followed the media coverage. It was more pronounced in X-Men coverage as outside of Patrick Stewart and Halle Berry, the other actors were (a)unknown or (b) only known to a certain segment of the audience. You didn't hear as much "based on the 70's comic" on Blade because there the story was Wesley Snipes. (The Wolfman case regarding Blade is a great example of the media not doing comics related stories unless a major Hollywood name is involved. Despite the fact Blade was a hit, I saw very little coverage of Wolfman v. Marvel other than people saying John Byrne showed his ass because the case may have been seen as a fight over comics, not film rights or plagurism) Without the figures in front of me, I'd say DC benefits more from film tie-ins because the characters are so identified with comics. However I've heard kids be suprised when they found a Superman or Batman comic as they only know them from the cartoons. Assuming Marvel got a bump from X-Men, Spider-Man (the better known character) should give them even more of one.
Should Marvel have a commercial for Ultimate X-Men running in the X-Men cartoon? Looking at how well the GIJoe commercial did in the 80's, I'd say yes. But then I think about the fact that there are a lot of parts of the country that there's no comic shops that are easy to get to. The cost versus the return on the investment. Maybe it would be worth it. Then again, they could get grief after the coverage of them dropping the code then advertising on a "kiddie show."
As for full page ads, it would've been cool for the Dini/Ross DC books to be advertised like that. But the advertising like that is best served for TPBs as they can be found outside of comic shops (I believe DC has advertised the Preacher TPBs in SPIN magazine. It wasn't a full page though. It was like 4" x 3" in the record review section.)
_________________________
Sean Dulaney
Writer, F.N. Stein, Consulting Detective, DREAH: Queen Of Thieves, and Kendar's Gift in DIGITAL WEBBING PRESENTS

http://www.digitalwebbing.net/comics/

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#469083 - 07/02/01 06:19 PM Re: Kevin Smith
iusetobekb Offline
Member

Registered: 06/03/01
Posts: 282
Loc: hawaii
Quote:
Originally posted by S.D. Moose:
As for full page ads, it would've been cool for the Dini/Ross DC books to be advertised like that. But the advertising like that is best served for TPBs as they can be found outside of comic shops (I believe DC has advertised the Preacher TPBs in SPIN magazine. It wasn't a full page though. It was like 4" x 3" in the record review section.)


that's the point ,they should bring people to comicshops not bookstores.a busy comic shop will do them much better than a small spot in a book store.it's just an idea,i know it's expensive but these are big companies no matter how much they cry about having to charge us more because their not making money.i don't want to here that marvels bankrupt either,so was donald trump,many times but he is still here,they should spend a little money and try and help shops get some business.all the companies should,after all it's their product the comicshops are selling.

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