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#471632 - 07/30/01 04:26 PM Re: "Miracleman" Trademark Status Update
D Eric Carpenter Offline
Member

Registered: 12/24/98
Posts: 55
Loc: indianapolis, IN, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by JM Lofficier:
The steps allegedly taken by McFarlane to register sole ownership of the MM trademark fly against both legal evidence (based on what has been publicly revealed so far) and good, old fashioned common sense. (All in my humble opinion, based on very limited information.)


My ONLY disagreement with your well-thought out posts is in this point. Trademark is something that has to be used or it goes away.

Two years ago, I could have published a comic book entitled Miracleman featuring the all new adventures of an entirely new character (nothing to do with the character in question), and I would have had a perfectly valid trademark--because no one was using it. It hasn't been used in well over a decade.

Trademark has very little to do with the creative side of things, and even less to do with copyrights.

Otherwise, I completely concur with your thoughts,

D. Eric Carpenter

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#471633 - 07/30/01 11:54 PM Re: "Miracleman" Trademark Status Update
JM Lofficier Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/00
Posts: 289
Loc: Resea, CA, USA
Eric,

I completely agree with your point. What I meant (and didn't express very well) was that one wouldn't normally try to register a tm in a, say, hit-and-run fashion, knowing fuyll well that your claim is not uncontested.

Come to think of it, that's not true. Marvel did get their "Captain Marvel" tm knowing full well that they were in effect stealing it away from the original CM.

The comics industry has a fine tradition of piracy, squatting, and plagiarism, and I suppose that's just one more example of it.

JM

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#471634 - 07/31/01 07:29 AM Re: "Miracleman" Trademark Status Update
Stephen R Bissette Offline
Member

Registered: 11/27/98
Posts: 939
Loc: wilmington, VT USA
I daresay, JM, that the piracy angle may explain much -- after all, Todd's had a taste of same since dabbling with Hollywood, where successful piracy is the mark of a man in some circles, and this whole MM debacle may be the man's high seas.

"Yo ho ho, and a Gaiman rum..."

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#471635 - 07/31/01 11:43 AM Re: "Miracleman" Trademark Status Update
skylion Offline
Member

Registered: 07/07/01
Posts: 59
Loc: covington, ky usa
Quote:
Originally posted by Stephen R Bissette:
"Yo ho ho, and a Gaiman rum..."


LOL LOL LOL LOL.
Stop it, man, i mean it.

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#471636 - 07/31/01 12:23 PM Re: "Miracleman" Trademark Status Update
Matt_Fabb Offline
Member

Registered: 06/29/01
Posts: 279
Loc: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
From: http://www.silverbulletcomicbooks.com/index.htm?contents=news/viewnews.cgi?newsid996410816,85590,
Quote:

Marvel Gets Its Man, Allegedly

Posted: Sunday, July 29
By: Craig Lemon

This is top secret, right, no-one has told you this, certainly not me... but the word is that Neil Gaiman has just signed a deal with Marvel for them to use the name "Marvelman." Additionally, the comprehensive Miracleman/Marvelman films recently discovered in his basement are about to be published by them in a series of Trade Paperbacks covering the entire Miracleman... oops, sorry, Marvelman, run.

Even more secret is that included in this reprints would be the never-published Miracleman... damn, there's that word again, I mean, Marvelman issue #25.... and maybe, just maybe, the eight completed pages from #26 and a script section finishing the story off.

I'd tell you my source, but I'd have to kill you, sorry.


So does this mean if they publish it as Marvelman instead of Mircleman, will that able Marvel to avoid any lawsuit with McFarlane?

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#471637 - 07/31/01 12:27 PM Re: "Miracleman" Trademark Status Update
Glenn Barbis Jr Offline
Member

Registered: 01/09/99
Posts: 765
Loc: Nowhere, Pa.
Sorry Matt...as you were posting the above item, I was starting a new thread about the same thing.

Didn't mean to step on you!
_________________________
comicsGB@MySpace

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#471638 - 07/31/01 01:59 PM Re: "Miracleman" Trademark Status Update
Matt_Fabb Offline
Member

Registered: 06/29/01
Posts: 279
Loc: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
Quote:
Sorry Matt...as you were posting the above item, I was starting a new thread about the same thing.
Didn't mean to step on you!


No problem Glenn! It's not like it was something original, just quoting from another article that we had both come across.

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#471639 - 07/31/01 03:01 PM Re: "Miracleman" Trademark Status Update
S.D. Moose Offline
Member

Registered: 05/10/01
Posts: 484
Loc: Carmi, IL, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by JM Lofficier:
It's Bastrich to you, sir, not Bastid. :-)

And to answer your question, yes, it does. (Limiting our conversation to underlying rights, not existing material.)

Until we're clear about the Miller-Anglo-Skinn relationship, I don't think anyone further down the chain has a very solid leg to stand on.

McFarlane introducing MM in HELLSPAWN is sort of equivalent to him using the Siegels to introduce SUPERMAN in SPAWN, except that neither Miller, nor Anglo (nor Skinn) have the resources of DC. It's the sort of action that, normally, a lawyer would advise against.

Or for all we know, MM may be deemed to be in the Public Domain (not the stories, the character), in which case no one can truly own him/it.

I will hazard a guess that Alan Moore, cutting to the chase with good common sense, probably felt that no one truly owned, or should own MM (which after all was conceived in an act of piracy), which is why he felt free to hand it on to his successors.

The steps allegedly taken by McFarlane to register sole ownership of the MM trademark fly against both legal evidence (based on what has been publicly revealed so far) and good, old fashioned common sense. (All in my humble opinion, based on very limited information.)

I have no particular problem with McFarlane using MM (through his purchase of Eclipse), if any of the other parties were also free to use him.

Alternatively, a MM consortium la Conan Properties could be set up, in which everyone entitled to a share would be represented, and that entity would control the character and take decisions as regards its use.

JM


Maybe he's from Boston and that was his accent?
Anyway, to the topic at hand. Having read the full (and might I say messy) history of the rights to the THUNDER Agents in Comic Book Artist I have one question...anyone know if Todd has been in contact with Miller or Anglo (or those working on their behalf)?
If he has the name Miracleman TM'd and purchased rights or the characters from Miller or Anglo or both, wouldn't he be able to defend his use of the character by using John C. vs David Singer as a precedent? (More or less saying the Dez Skinn/Eclipse use of the characters was not proper and all right and materials would go to TMP.)



------------------
Sean

"Let's all enjoy the sex act before Congress repeals it."-Groucho Marx
_________________________
Sean Dulaney
Writer, F.N. Stein, Consulting Detective, DREAH: Queen Of Thieves, and Kendar's Gift in DIGITAL WEBBING PRESENTS

http://www.digitalwebbing.net/comics/

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#471640 - 07/31/01 04:12 PM Re: "Miracleman" Trademark Status Update
Korvac Offline
Member

Registered: 02/08/00
Posts: 1686
Loc: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
>>>
Anyway, to the topic at hand. Having read the full (and might I say messy) history of the rights to the THUNDER Agents in Comic Book Artist I have one question...anyone know if Todd has been in contact with Miller or Anglo (or those working on their behalf)?
If he has the name Miracleman TM'd and purchased rights or the characters from Miller or Anglo or both, wouldn't he be able to defend his use of the character by using John C. vs David Singer as a precedent? (More or less saying the Dez Skinn/Eclipse use of the characters was not proper and all right and materials would go to TMP.) <<

Hmmm, you seem to be ascribing something close to both forethought and respect for creator's rights on Todd's part. If I was a lawyer I'd call that asuming facts not in evidence.


------------------
Nothing tops the simple joy of a monkey knife fight.
_________________________
"Reality has a well known liberal bias."
-Stephen Colbert

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#471641 - 07/31/01 04:51 PM Re: "Miracleman" Trademark Status Update
S.D. Moose Offline
Member

Registered: 05/10/01
Posts: 484
Loc: Carmi, IL, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Korvac:
Hmmm, you seem to be ascribing something close to both forethought and respect for creator's rights on Todd's part. If I was a lawyer I'd call that asuming facts not in evidence.


[/B]


Granted, but I saw it more as an end run around any claim Gaiman and others would have on the characters. If the 80's material was to be judged as not to have been published by a "legitimate and legal holder of those [rights] legally binding," then the rights transfered to Gaiman from Moore (as well as those held by the various artists) would be null and void and (again using the THUNDER Agents as precedent) Gaiman would more than likely be ordered to return the film to TMP. (John Carbonaro was awarded the copyright on all THUNDER material released by Deluxe/David Singer as well as backstock that had not been published.) While it's doubtful Todd would be willing to pay for MM twice (Eclipse auction and the theoretical payoff to UK claimants to the character[s]) it would put him on stronger legal ground against Neil or anyone Neil would take the 80's material to and could result in him getting the film back. I believe awhile back JM said not to ignore the claims of Miller and Anglo. This is a damn good reason why they shouldn't be ignored. That's not to say courts could declare Marvelman (the original) public domain. I'm just saying we have precedent and Todd's lawyers would either find it on their own or (since he was working for DC with many who had worked for Deluxe when that judgement was rendered) Todd may have told them to find it. It doesn't make it right in a karma/justice sense but a judge might see it otherwise and rule in favor of Todd.

Of course I could just be talking out of my ass.

"You can put it in the hands of your attorney but that doesn't mean it will stand up in court" -"Camp Judges" Monty Python
_________________________
Sean Dulaney
Writer, F.N. Stein, Consulting Detective, DREAH: Queen Of Thieves, and Kendar's Gift in DIGITAL WEBBING PRESENTS

http://www.digitalwebbing.net/comics/

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