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#475261 - 09/22/01 07:09 AM Re: TERRORIST COMICS: Time to Take a Stand!
peter mcdonalds of burger king land Offline
Member

Registered: 06/07/01
Posts: 7016
Roberson touched on pretty much everything I wanted to say. Mr. Steranko, the problems that we face in the world these days will not be solved by cleaning up comic books; the reasons behind the attacks are far more complex than simple glorification of violence and destruction. Using these events to back up your thesis smacks of sensationalism and manipulation, two things that we get enough of from the media. I don't claim to have all the answers, but the connections that you attempt to draw are not convincing to me.

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#475262 - 09/22/01 07:38 AM Re: TERRORIST COMICS: Time to Take a Stand!
positronic Offline
Member

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 73
Yes, perhaps if you could prove that all of the terrorists involved in the conspiracy and highjacking of the four airliners last week were known to have been great followers of current American comic books, then you could prove that comic books lead to terrorism. At least, you might have a better case (given the current LACK of widespread popularity of American comic books with the general public) than Fred Wertham did in trying to prove that if all juvenile delinquents read comics books, that proves that comic books lead to juvenile delinquency (never mind that all the REST of the kids read them back in those days as well).

Seriously, while I sympathize with Steranko's despair over the events of last week, looking for the roots of moral decay among comic books (which 90% of the American populace doesn't read [and never has] anyway) is a fool's errand.

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#475263 - 09/22/01 09:00 AM Re: TERRORIST COMICS: Time to Take a Stand!
Ray Barnes Offline
Member

Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 59
Loc: Cosby, Tn. USA
Mr Steranko;

For thirty years the "Comics Industry" has emphasized short term profits over just about every other human value. The bottom line has determined content for all. The simplest formula, "shocking" content, that plays with the edges of people's sensibilities, is well known as a means of sparking that extra hairline of "saleability" that can determine wether a comic even gets published.

Now you, arguably someone who has had a lot of control over content for many years, are shocked to discover that the medium has become a vast wasteland?

"Denial" so they say, is not just a river in Egypt.

I no longer pin my hopes on a corrupt and greed driven "Comix Industry". I publish on the web, in hopes of directly confronting an audience, and not the wizened awareness of some corporate bean counter turned "Publisher".

Incidentally, I have been digitally publishing a tale for five years about a Super Heroine/Prostitute who sacrifices everything to save her world.

'nuff said...



------------------
"Stand back! Give him air. I'm a cartoonist. Get me a giant rubber mallet and a ripe pineapple."
3D Sci-fi Adventure On The Mothership
http://www.mazdak.com/
_________________________
"Stand back! Give him air. I'm a cartoonist. Get me a giant rubber mallet and a ripe pineapple."
3D Sci-fi Adventure On The Mothership
http://www.mazdak.com/

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#475264 - 09/22/01 09:41 AM Re: TERRORIST COMICS: Time to Take a Stand!
jglover Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/01
Posts: 103
Loc: oxford
God bless Steranko.

I don't want censorship of stories that glorify a violent or deviant state of mind. I just want fewer books that celebrate it over good storytelling. I remember reading X-Men #133 when it first came out and thinking,"Cool. Don't piss off Wolverine. He will take a fight to the extreme, if he has too." And Claremont and Byrne made the point mostly off-camera (like Fleischer's and Aparo's Spectre)and never sacrificed good story-telling in the process. Some feel that this story, The Dark Phoenix saga, is the best every in comics. But the very nature of Wolverine that made him unique became popular, and writers and companies began to take notice and give us more characters like him - Punisher, Rorschach, Timber Wolf - even Alan Moore's Swamp Thing became shockingly brutal as his character developed. All of these were written within stories that could stand on their own in intelligence and purpose.
So many others since seem to be produced for shock value, and combined with poor art has driven many comic readers away, leaving behind a smaller fan-base demanding more shock.

Well, I say let's shock them. Let's give them stories with unique settings, bold characterization, more verbal, dramatic, and situational irony, and original concepts told in a new point of view and see what happens. Let's not rely on costumed, extreme anti-heroes that seem to be all the rage right now.

Step up and show us how its done, Steranko, and I'll try to do the same.
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jglover

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#475265 - 09/22/01 10:06 AM Re: TERRORIST COMICS: Time to Take a Stand!
steven johnson Offline
Member

Registered: 07/13/01
Posts: 56
Loc: durham, NC 27704
One comment: the people who died in the WTC didn't die because of nihilism, they died because of angry, hate-driven beliefs.

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#475266 - 09/22/01 10:45 AM Re: TERRORIST COMICS: Time to Take a Stand!
Chris Knowles Offline
Member

Registered: 01/23/99
Posts: 875
Loc: USA
Journalista knees have been jerking with furious intensity lately. The cries of "Censorship!" is the cry-baby Left's perennial favorite. "Censor" is now the epithet thrown at anyone who criticizes anything said by anyone with whom the Left cares to align themselves. Censorship by the government is unconstitutional, but. for instance. retailers have the right to not carry books they find objectionable and publishers have the right to not publish material that is offensive. These decisions are made every day.

I believe Steranko is calling for a boycott and/or "censure-ship" where people band together to denounce speech and/or work they feel is objectionable. This is perfectly American.

Jimmy and Amanda are very sweet people and I think Jim Steranko might be misinterpreting the press release. I haven't see the book so I can't comment, but there are plenty of other books out there that are nothing but a window unto the diseased soul of Fanboy America. But again, at the same time there are books that are positive and creative.

But once the ripples from the WTC reach the rest of the country, this conversation might be moot. The recession might well put the Direct Market to the big sleep.


Roberson, thank you for affirming the observations made in the first paragraph of my previous post.

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#475267 - 09/22/01 11:12 AM Re: TERRORIST COMICS: Time to Take a Stand!
Charles Reece Offline
Member

Registered: 08/18/99
Posts: 10013
Loc: us of fuckin' a
Quote:
Jimmy and Amanda are very sweet people and I think Jim Steranko might be misinterpreting the press release. I haven't see the book so I can't comment, but there are plenty of other books out there that are nothing but a window unto the diseased soul of Fanboy America. But again, at the same time there are books that are positive and creative.


I assume the irony here is self-evident, right? If not: who's more likely to like the mainstream crud Steranko is decrying? Who was it that jumped all over kindly Joe Zabel's shit for daring to disagree about needing to renew "Fanboy America"?

[This message has been edited by Charles Reece (edited 09-22-2001).]
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#475268 - 09/22/01 11:12 AM Re: TERRORIST COMICS: Time to Take a Stand!
Todd VerBeek Offline
Member

Registered: 06/15/01
Posts: 291
Loc: Grand Rapids MI
Mister Steranko needs to take several deep breaths, and if that doesn't help, grief counseling might be a good idea.

He has some excellent points about the glorification of violence and so on. But equating people who jokingly play at being "evil" (writing about a naughty superhero) with people who perform acts of genuine evil (cold-blooded murder) demonstrates a serious lack of perspective. Only in the worldview of fundamentalist fanatics like bin Laden and Falwell are people inked in pure black and white.

It's always a good idea to go for a walk, watch a TV show, or fix a sandwich before hitting the "send" button. I'm hopeful that if Steranko had done so here, he might have had second thoughts about the ugly threats he made based on his simplistic fundamentalist analysis and taken them out as inappropriate. Because they were.

The irony is that if a comicbook character spat the kind of hateful venom Steranko did here, he'd be an example of the very thing Steranko is criticising. =My= heroes are above that.
-Todd VerBeek
_________________________
ToddVerBeek.com
GraphicNovels.info

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#475269 - 09/22/01 11:21 AM Re: TERRORIST COMICS: Time to Take a Stand!
Charles Reece Offline
Member

Registered: 08/18/99
Posts: 10013
Loc: us of fuckin' a
oh yeah:

Ray nailed this one shut.
_________________________
The Gospel, wherein much Truth is written.

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#475270 - 09/22/01 12:48 PM Re: TERRORIST COMICS: Time to Take a Stand!
GoleM Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/22/01
Posts: 1
It's been said here, but I want to add my voice.

With all due respect to Mr Steranko and his (wonderful) work, he should know better. This post is a document, and as such it makes him look as a complete fascist, not to mention extremely alarmist. Now, whenever he wants to discuss something else, anyone can mention this post and ruin his credibility. A real pity.

What Mr Steranko is calling for here is plain censorship. Remember that if there's something that can tell us apart from the monsters responsible for 9/11 is precisely our freedom, and freedom of speech is a integral part of it. If somebody wants to disagree, then do so, but expressing in public and in a written medium that those who write things he doesn't like are TERRORISTS, that's directly an insult, and even the tragedy that caused the letter isn't a good excuse for gratuitous insults.

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