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#480808 - 12/25/01 08:41 AM Re: Stan Used To Do It With Charm, Wit, and a Sense of Belonging.
THE_WATCHER Offline
Member

Registered: 05/20/01
Posts: 506
Iíve given up ranting about Marvel endlessly and being infuriated by their pronouncements. To me, Marvel is the whiny child having a tantrum in the corner wanting attention.

As Iíve stated elsewhere, while Joe Qís remarks for the most part have seemed intelligent and measured, I find Super BJís behavior and personal style distasteful. If anything it only serves to turn me off towards their product.

Besides, it's a matter of dollars. I vote with my wallet. There is very little coming out from Marvel I find myself wanting to read or spend money on. I heard all the lip service about the continuity ďelephant in the roomĒ which was bogging down Marvelís ability to tell a story and gain audience but, if anything, I find the situation exacerbated by the current editorial regime.

Excuse me if I choose to forego subjecting myself to the latest Ulitmate/Max/X-title tripe. Books are way too expensive for me to find it in my heart to support someoneís ill fated attempt at clear storytelling.

Mind you, there are exceptions to every rule and a few of the books I purchase every month are Marvel books. FF and Spider Man have regained some of the quality which was notably absent over the lasts several years. I just donít subscribe to the ultra-cool, hip and cutting edge portrayal Marvel management would like to foist on its readership.

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#480809 - 12/25/01 09:53 AM Re: Stan Used To Do It With Charm, Wit, and a Sense of Belonging.
Samuel Catalino Offline
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Registered: 04/04/99
Posts: 4447
If you can't handle a bunch of ribbing, then go home back to your playpen.

In his time Stan Lee labeled the competitors as Brand Echh and threw his share of jabs, and I find no difference here, other than names are mentioned.

I hear that J & Q are coming down to Megacon and debate with Mark A....Should be interesting..

I doubt if such a debate comes to pass, but should it happen, I suspect it will have all the substance of a McFarlane vs. David debate....in that it won't be taken seriously.
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#480810 - 12/26/01 01:05 AM Re: Stan Used To Do It With Charm, Wit, and a Sense of Belonging.
Matt Hawes Offline
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Registered: 07/13/01
Posts: 1965
Loc: Evansville, IN U.S.A.
Quote:
Originally posted by otto'sfoodsensingaparatus:
Matt, please edit your laughter. It has made this thread very hard to read.


I'd like to. I've tried to edit the post, but the board won't let me. If I had known the result of typing with no spaces (I figured it would wrap around normally), I wouldn't have done it that way. Sorry.
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#480811 - 12/26/01 01:21 AM Re: Stan Used To Do It With Charm, Wit, and a Sense of Belonging.
Matt Hawes Offline
Member

Registered: 07/13/01
Posts: 1965
Loc: Evansville, IN U.S.A.
Quote:
Originally posted by Samuel Catalino:
If you can't handle a bunch of ribbing, then go home back to your playpen.

In his time Stan Lee labeled the competitors as Brand Echh and threw his share of jabs, and I find no difference here, other than names are mentioned.

I hear that J & Q are coming down to Megacon and debate with Mark A....Should be interesting..

I doubt if such a debate comes to pass, but should it happen, I suspect it will have all the substance of a McFarlane vs. David debate....in that it won't be taken seriously.


All Stan Lee did was tease DC with tongue planted in cheek. He didn't refer to his fans as being dateless and living in their parent's basement getting off on "date books." And he didn't insult the retailers that are buying his product.
But, listen, I hear the lot of you that think this is just a case of "new" vs. "old." If that's all you really think this is, I won't be able to convince you otherwise. Silly me, I think good business -- being professional and successful -- relies on treating your business associates (retailers, distributors, etc.) and your regular customers (readers) like they are important or, at the least, not annoying or beneath you. Attacking CrossGen or DC is unprofessional in the manner that Marvel does it, but that's business. Insulting business associates and customers is not --- or, at least, not good business.
But, hey, what does centuries of good business practices compare to Bill J's "in-your-face" snottiness? He's made Marvel sell well for eBay patrons. The other businesses have strived for decades to centuries on treating customers and business associates respectfully (McDonalds, Coke, Sears, etc.).

What do those multi-billion dollar industries know, huh? Nothing compared to the brash, new, hip style of that corporate ladder climber, Bill Jemas.

So, if that's your idea of "new," welcome to it! Don't fuss when you are treated as a nobody whose opinions don't matter, though. The new Marvel, under BJ, cares only about your money, period. And they're flaunting it in your face.


------------------
Matthew Hawes
COMICS UNLIMITED
Evansville, IN
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"Mainstream" Matthew Hawes

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#480812 - 12/26/01 09:15 AM Re: Stan Used To Do It With Charm, Wit, and a Sense of Belonging.
Speed Racer Offline
Member

Registered: 04/05/01
Posts: 152
Bitter, bitter, bitter...

Besides, is a place like McDonald's really treating anyone with courtesy, given the quality of food they offer?
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#480813 - 12/27/01 04:48 PM Re: Stan Used To Do It With Charm, Wit, and a Sense of Belonging.
Steve Hogan Offline
Member

Registered: 02/27/01
Posts: 5099
Loc: Burlington, VT 05401
Quote:
Originally posted by Speed Racer:
Besides, is a place like McDonald's really treating anyone with courtesy, given the quality of food they offer?


I've often said that about Marvel...

Matt: Sorry, my initial post was just meant to take down the idea of getting too nostlagiac about the old Marvel regime. From what I understand Stan (Who I'll admit comes off quite cuddly on TV.) could be quite vicious when he was so inclined.

It does sound like Jemas could stand to tone it down (I really haven't followed him that closely.) though I agree with Lew that this is likely an attempt to project a cool alpha male image with the young males. I don't agree that it's a case of kids getting dumber (Stats on the current generation say otherwise.) but rather that in the quest for the easy buck, most mainstream comics dumbed down so far that the smart kids avoid them now.

(Response delayed due to the genial yet totally ineffectual service from my internet provider. Dicks.)
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#480814 - 12/27/01 07:54 PM Re: Stan Used To Do It With Charm, Wit, and a Sense of Belonging.
macclint Offline
Member

Registered: 07/11/01
Posts: 731
Loc: Twin Peaks, Washington
Ummm....

Call me wacky, but I just don't buy Marvel anymore.

Not for several years actually.



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Clint Hollingsworth
The Wandering Ones
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Clint Hollingsworth
The Wandering Ones

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#480815 - 12/28/01 12:22 AM Re: Stan Used To Do It With Charm, Wit, and a Sense of Belonging.
Siege of Quebec Offline
Member

Registered: 05/23/01
Posts: 529
Loc: Quebec,Qc, Canada
Actualy, you should try one.
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#480816 - 12/28/01 02:44 AM Re: Stan Used To Do It With Charm, Wit, and a Sense of Belonging.
Raven Offline
Member

Registered: 03/29/99
Posts: 238
Loc: Ontario, Canada
>>The current regime at Marvel does it with condescension, snideness, unprofessionalism and bullie-ish glee.<<

Yeah? Well Mr. Smart Guy, find me a President and Editor in Chief of another company, any company, that would give half a shit and be as easily accessible.

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#480817 - 12/28/01 02:46 AM Re: Stan Used To Do It With Charm, Wit, and a Sense of Belonging.
Raven Offline
Member

Registered: 03/29/99
Posts: 238
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Oh wait, you are on of those low IQ retailers Bill J. was talking about.

If you don't like Marvel, go open a gas station, I am sure your suppliers there will give an even bigger shit about your complaints.

Oh and before you quote such paragons of business virtue as McDonalds, go do a little research, Coke engages in back door deals with educational facilities promoting soft drinks to kids, even though its unhealthy for growing children to drink more soda than water, which they are doing.

Or McDonalds? Marvel isn't sending gangbusters into your shop threatening you because you talk about unionizing. Although maybe they should, a few of you retailers really need a good ass whipping, it'll get you out of the store and back into the real world.

>>What do those multi-billion dollar industries know, huh? <<

They know how to fuck you so bad you don't even know it's happening, that's what they know, but instead of opening your eyes you're here bitching because Marvel is trying to have a good time.



[This message has been edited by Raven (edited 12-28-2001).]

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