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#500263 - 09/29/02 08:06 AM Re: "Let's crap on an Icon" or New Superman movie a go!
Peter David Offline
Member

Registered: 04/04/01
Posts: 855
Loc: NY, NY
Quote:
Originally posted by Smile:
*hitting my head against the wall*

THE SCRIPT THAT WAS LEAKED WAS FAKE.



Heh.

PAD

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#500264 - 09/29/02 09:19 AM Re: "Let's crap on an Icon" or New Superman movie a go!
Elayne Riggs Offline
Member

Registered: 01/29/99
Posts: 2983
Loc: Bronx, NY, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Walt Stone:
But you think that a purposefully bad script was written and then released? And that this is some masterful plot?

Now THAT'S entertainment!

Nah. You give someone a whole lot of credit.


I agree with him. I'm sure this isn't the first time Hollywood has floated a fake trial balloon on purpose. That so many people believe otherwise doesn't speak to Hollywood's cleverness or credit as much as it does to the relative naivete of many online fans.

- Elayne
_________________________
"Life is truly normal only when people feel safe enough to critique, defend, and analyze art and popular culture." - Lisa Schwarzbaum
Click here for my blog, Pen-Elayne on the Web
Click here for Robin Riggs' latest interview

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#500265 - 09/29/02 10:47 AM Re: "Let's crap on an Icon" or New Superman movie a go!
Stygian Starbender Offline
Member

Registered: 01/15/02
Posts: 108
Loc: Stygian home world, Shi'Ar gal...
Quote:
Originally posted by Peter David:


And vastly improved, in my opinion. That's something else people never discuss: Sometimes the movie versions *are* demonstrably better. The ending of the film version of "The Firm" was far more ingenious than the uninspired conclusion of the book.

PAD


True, but changing one or two aspects of a script are one thing, but to re-write the whole book is another. If you change EVERYTHING about a character, it ceases to be the character that it originally was.

Let's say a screenplay writer pens a story about a hard-drinking, foul-mouthed cyborg detective, living in a future post-apocalyptic London, who delves into mysterious crimes with his robot companion named "Watts", and after solving the mystery, the cyborg detective blows off the head the offender with a laser-blaster in his cybernetic right arm, and the writer names the character "Sherlock Holmes".

Now does the fact that he lives in London, and he "solves" mysteries make him Arthur Conan Doyle's, 'Sherlock Holmes'..? In my opinion, this writer simply wanted to write a story about a Mad Max/Judge Dread rip-off, and then decided to plaster the name 'Sherlock Holmes' on him.

There's a point to where "tweaking" a character ends, and you begin to completely change the character into someone else. This (awful) Superman script changes too many fundemental aspects about the Superman mythos, up to the point where it's not 'Superman' anymore.

If people want to treat this as a 'Elseworlds' or 'What If' type of story, that's fine, but the problem with that is the vast majority of the moviegoing audience is not familiar with Elseworlds stories. They only know Superman from the earlier movies and TV shows, and they will be leaving the movie theater scratching their heads trying to figure out why Superman was changed so drastically for really no good reason.

(Alex Clarke)
_________________________
"If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving definitely isn't for you." -- Steven Wright

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#500266 - 09/29/02 11:55 AM Re: "Let's crap on an Icon" or New Superman movie a go!
Walt Stone Offline
Member

Registered: 01/01/01
Posts: 496
Loc: Katy, Tx
Quote:
Originally posted by Eel O'Brian:
In this day and age of studios not making a move without a million different types of focus groups and polls, I really wouldn't put it past a studio to 'leak' a 'script' packed with every off-the-wall idea possible, to gauge the different reactions.
I'd love to believe that as well. But I keep hearing stories about how screwed up the franchise was over the Superman v Batman movie. I cannot believe that these same screw ups that looked all the world like "the gang that couldn't shoot straight" with Supes v Bats turned into such masterful geniuses overnight with Superman 5 (or whatever it's being called now).

To top it off, some script (which one was it?) knocked Supes v Bats into the dumper. If it was the "first draft" then all of the logic behind "let's float a trial balloon script" goes out the window. If it was the "second draft" and WB only saw that, then you're saying that someone came up with a "first draft" in order to get attention? The folks at WB would never presume to ask for that, so someone at JJAbrams Central would to have ponied up for that. No, that logic fails for me, too.

So the only logic that still works for me is that JJAbrams sold WB on the first draft, that heinous piece of crap (um, as described to me, where Abrams himself admits is flawed) and someone at WB released it because of some of the obvious pieces of tripe that were in it. That the first draft WAS just that, and that Abrams was finishing up the second when all of this crap hit the fan. That the script was changed prior to the release... that I'll buy. That the script was released to get attention... THAT I'll buy, but I think it was released not by the officials in the WB/Abrams camp, but by Superman fans or rival producers who want to scuttle the movie in favor of a non-origin story.

And lastly on this... Personal opinion and gut feeling here...

Even if I'm wrong, and this was some masterful stroke, I have to stand up and applaud. Hell, there's a part of me that enjoys this, this... being played by the studios.

It shows that WB/Abrams (whomever did this) is not adverse to taking some risks, etc. (Something we haven't see come from WB... this is why it's so hard to believe)

But I still feel that (these series of events)
comprises a dynamic that will have its own energy for some time. It has polarized more than a few folks.

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#500267 - 09/29/02 12:00 PM Re: "Let's crap on an Icon" or New Superman movie a go!
Walt Stone Offline
Member

Registered: 01/01/01
Posts: 496
Loc: Katy, Tx
Quote:
Originally posted by Stygian Starbender:
They only know Superman from the earlier movies and TV shows, and they will be leaving the movie theater scratching their heads trying to figure out why Superman was changed so drastically for really no good reason.
If Krypton doesn't explode, and there's some giant civil war going on, why, I can see about 20 different "Krypton tank/ Krypton Battle Unit/ Krypton rogue fighter Action Figure" items going on sale in about a year or so.

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#500268 - 09/29/02 01:32 PM Re: "Let's crap on an Icon" or New Superman movie a go!
Graeme McMillan Offline
Member

Registered: 08/25/01
Posts: 976
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Quote:
Originally posted by Peter David:
And vastly improved, in my opinion. That's something else people never discuss: Sometimes the movie versions *are* demonstrably better. The ending of the film version of "The Firm" was far more ingenious than the uninspired conclusion of the book.


Have you read William Goldman's "Which Lie Did I Tell?", PAD? There's a great chapter in there about what happened when he was adapting a novel into what turned into a Clint Eastwood vehicle... something that necessitated the rewriting of the entire plot (I think the movie was "Absolute Power", but I can't remember the name...). Sounds like something you'd enjoy, if you haven't already.
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#500269 - 09/29/02 01:53 PM Re: "Let's crap on an Icon" or New Superman movie a go!
kingtut Offline
Member

Registered: 04/16/02
Posts: 1349
Loc: CS, CO
Quote:
Originally posted by Stygian Starbender:


Let's say a screenplay writer pens a story about a hard-drinking, foul-mouthed cyborg detective, living in a future post-apocalyptic London, who delves into mysterious crimes with his robot companion named "Watts", and after solving the mystery, the cyborg detective blows off the head the offender with a laser-blaster in his cybernetic right arm, and the writer names the character "Sherlock Holmes".

(Alex Clarke)


You just described the premise for the cartoon "Sherlock Holmmes in the 22nd Century"(im not joking) that used to be on Fox. Hopefully you havent seen it and its just a weird coincidence.
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#500270 - 09/29/02 02:20 PM Re: "Let's crap on an Icon" or New Superman movie a go!
Walt Stone Offline
Member

Registered: 01/01/01
Posts: 496
Loc: Katy, Tx
Quote:
Originally posted by Elayne Riggs:
I'm sure this isn't the first time Hollywood has floated a fake trial balloon on purpose.
So, I would like to add one thing on this: If this "trial balloon" results in the firings of anyone at WB AND/OR the NONmaking of any JJAbrams script into the next Superman movie, it means that the script wasn't a "trial balloon" and the release wasn't for a good publicity stunt.

Would you agree?

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#500271 - 09/29/02 05:56 PM Re: "Let's crap on an Icon" or New Superman movie a go!
Elayne Riggs Offline
Member

Registered: 01/29/99
Posts: 2983
Loc: Bronx, NY, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Walt Stone:
So, I would like to add one thing on this: If this "trial balloon" results in the firings of anyone at WB AND/OR the NONmaking of any JJAbrams script into the next Superman movie, it means that the script wasn't a "trial balloon" and the release wasn't for a good publicity stunt.

Would you agree?


Absolutely not. You can't link a firing in Hollywood to something like this. People get fired and scripts get remade all the time.

- Elayne
_________________________
"Life is truly normal only when people feel safe enough to critique, defend, and analyze art and popular culture." - Lisa Schwarzbaum
Click here for my blog, Pen-Elayne on the Web
Click here for Robin Riggs' latest interview

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#500272 - 09/29/02 06:13 PM Re: "Let's crap on an Icon" or New Superman movie a go!
Walt Stone Offline
Member

Registered: 01/01/01
Posts: 496
Loc: Katy, Tx
Quote:
Originally posted by Elayne Riggs:
People get fired and scripts get remade all the time.
And any firings or remaking of the script on this movie can now, rightly or wrongly, be attached to this trial balloon.

And if the movie fails, they will still have the opportunity to blame it on bad internet press.

Hmm... never thought about it that way!

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