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#504801 - 08/16/02 09:04 PM Re: CBLDF Appeals Texas Retailer Conviction
Lord Julius Offline
Member

Registered: 06/28/02
Posts: 523
Loc: St. Louis, Mo.
Quote:
Originally posted by flying pig:

Now back to the retailer. The charge against the retailer wasn't that he sold the comic to the customer but how he displayed it. Did the store owner hold it up to someone in the store and say, "Hey, Joe (or Mary or who ever). Look what I just sold. And you told me no one would buy it." thus displaying an adult only comic book to the whole store? What precaution did he take when giving the comic to the adult? Were children around that could see the cover or insides? Did he put it in a bag or did he toss it to the guy so that the whole store could see it? The article doesn't mention that. The article also didn't mention what was said by the defense attorney. So you are assuming that the jury was told about the precautions of the store owner on the displays. They may or may not have been. You don't know. The only thing you know about the case is what CBLDF said. They censored the information to you by putting in just what they wanted you to read.


OK, how's this, the opening paragraphs of the original Dallas Observer newspaper article about the original conviction, from January 2001:

Quote:

When C.A. Reynerson walked into Keith's Comics in September 1999, it was clear he wasn't looking forward to catching up on the action in the second installment of the anime comic Demon Beast Invasion: The Fallen. He was looking for a case.

Reynerson, a detective in the vice section of the Dallas Police Department, found one when he saw the cover of the Demon Beast Invasion book, which depicted a naked woman whose measurements exist only in comics. The book was in the store's adult section, a spot generally more of a haven for violent comics rather than sexually explicit ones. Still, Reynerson was detective enough to find one that fit the bill.


Got that? The book WAS IN THE ADULTS ONLY SECTION! That's not from the CBLDF, that's from a daily newspaper in Dallas. If you read the whole story, you'll find that the whole thing is a political sham to make some politicians look good (surprise, surprise)

A police detective, probably at the direction of the mayor and other politicians (though not provably -- a second case where there was evidence was dismissed at the request of the prosecutor after the politicians received subpoenas for depositions), walked into the store, walked past the kid-friendly stuff, not even bothering to find something objectionable there, went into the adults-only section where the kids are not allowed to go, picked up a book, paged through it, brought it to the counter and bought it -- and then busted the poor guy who happened to be working the cash register that day.

That's not the CBLDF version, that's a daily newspaper report from the city where it happened. You can find the whole story here:

http://www.dallasobserver.com/issues/2001-01-04/news.html

Quote:

Almost every case will have a plea bargain offered to the defendant for a lesser charge and in this case probably a slap on the wrist.


Plea bargains are common, but not quite as univeral as you seem to think. Especially if the whole point is so that the mayor and the police chief and the prosecutor can run on a "get tough on obscenity" platform come next election. This case wasn't about protecting children, it was about headlines. A plea bargain wouldn't have given them that. If they offered one at all, it would have been with such a high penalties that the defendant felt he had little to lose by taking his chances with the jury.

After all, they obviously didn't have a case. He sold an adult comic, from a cordoned-off section available only to adults, to an adult. What could possibly be wrong with that?

Quote:

If found guilty, most sentencing judges will go hard the convicted person if they knew a plea bargain was offered but was refused. The judge's consider that a big waste of tax payer money. So, the store owner took a chance that he would win in front of a jury but lost. Now he has to pay the price.


Your knowledge of the law is as shaky as your grasp of this story. You apparently formed the former from watching TV shows. I have no idea where you got the latter. It's not the store owner who's in jeapordy here, but the "manager," a guy with no college and no other job experience who happened to be behind the counter that day.
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#504802 - 08/17/02 12:58 AM Re: CBLDF Appeals Texas Retailer Conviction
Eric Millikin Offline
Member

Registered: 02/03/02
Posts: 266
Loc: Detroit
Quote:
Originally posted by Lord Julius:


That's not from the CBLDF, that's from a daily newspaper in Dallas...


Actually, the Observer is an alterna-weekly. Otherwise, your post seems right-on.
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#504803 - 08/17/02 01:56 AM Re: CBLDF Appeals Texas Retailer Conviction
Sir Tim Drake Offline
Member

Registered: 01/10/00
Posts: 341
You know... this is why I want to be an appeals court judge, so I can reverse rulings like that.
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#504804 - 08/17/02 09:53 AM Re: CBLDF Appeals Texas Retailer Conviction
Pat ONeill Offline
Member

Registered: 08/18/99
Posts: 3064
Loc: PA, USA
While I support the retailer in this case, generally, I do have to question his judgment in having ANY kind of adult comics on display when he is located across the street from an elementary school.

In my community (suburban Philly), that alone would be a violation, as any "adult" business within 500 yards of a school or church is against the zoning codes.
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#504805 - 08/17/02 10:54 AM Re: CBLDF Appeals Texas Retailer Conviction
Talon T M Offline
Member

Registered: 03/22/01
Posts: 702
Quote:
Originally posted by Sir Tim Drake:
You know... this is why I want to be an appeals court judge, so I can reverse rulings like that.


It's really pretty simple, guys...

Don't mess with Texas.
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#504806 - 08/17/02 11:37 AM Re: CBLDF Appeals Texas Retailer Conviction
Charles Reece Offline
Member

Registered: 08/18/99
Posts: 10013
Loc: us of fuckin' a
Quote:
While I support the retailer in this case, generally, I do have to question his judgment in having ANY kind of adult comics on display when he is located across the street from an elementary school.


Are you saying that he showed bad judgement in trying to sell adult comics to an adult buyer? What about a chain bookstore that contains erotic and/or transgressive literature? Is there a problem with having a Borders next to a school, and would they be showing bad judgement when selling, say, THE STORY OF THE EYE to an adult? (In fact, any 8-year-old can buy the book, which contains multiple sexual scenes involving egg yolk running into the vagina after being cracked with the buttocks, orgies of blood, puss and puke, etc.. There's nothing in the LEGEND OF THE OVERFIEND and its like that hasn't been put in a book by a French intellectual.) Of course, the moral majority doesn't read (Tom Clancy and the LEFT BEHIND series don't count), so this is only a hypothetical.
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#504807 - 08/17/02 12:00 PM Re: CBLDF Appeals Texas Retailer Conviction
William Bradley Offline
Member

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 32
Another interesting aspect of this case is the presumed relevance of the elementary school being located nearby. I mean, if I'm to believe that the proximity of a school makes the sale of adult materials to adults illegal, then can I assume that police and prosecutors are going to be busting every 7-11, Cumberland Farms, and Stewart Shop located within, oh, let's say a mile of every school in this country? If the presence of "adult materials" makes a store an "adult establishment," then it seems to me that this must be a logical step, right?

Frankly, (and I know I'm preaching to the choir here, on these message boards) I think it's absolutely shameful that law enforcement officials are wasting taxpayer money on such frivolous, meaningless causes. Surely, there's a real crime occuring somewhere in this town. And if there isn't, then the police department and district attorney's office are obviously overstaffed. Time and money are being squandered here; if I lived in Texas, I would be outraged.

Screw it. I live in Missouri, and I'm outraged.

I also just recently quit smoking, if it's not obvious from my aggravated tone.

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#504808 - 08/17/02 12:01 PM Re: CBLDF Appeals Texas Retailer Conviction
ComicReader Offline
Member

Registered: 06/23/01
Posts: 708
How many convenience stores are across the street from the school? How many of those stores sell Club and Hustler?

Why aren't they busted?
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#504809 - 08/18/02 11:47 AM Re: CBLDF Appeals Texas Retailer Conviction
Scout99 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/22/01
Posts: 1223
I have a better example, comicreader. Why doesn't the D.A. involved in the Castillo case go after business that sell adult entertainment, like Sam Goody or Suncoast? They sell soft-core adult videos. Go after 7-11s for selling Penthouse, beer and, God forbid, cigarettes (Remember the scene in Kevin Smith's "Clerks" with Randal selling the underage girl a pack of cigarettes, and, later, Dante getting the fine. Ha Ha!).

That's the problem with censorship. It's like genocide: once you start, you never stop until there's nothing left. And you've accomplished nothing, except for the hindrance of the human experience.

BTW, flying pig, in NYC, ex-mayor Rudy Giulani succeded in getting rid of most erotic (I refuse the word porn) shops by having zoning laws: an erotic shop should be within 500 yards of a worship house, a school, a place of residence and/or another erotic shop, and the dopey "60% clean stock/40% erotic stock" rule.

By that logic, Keith's Comics, the shop in trouble, should be closed because it sells erotica material near a school! Comic shops=erotic shops? Ludicrous! :rolleyes:

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#504810 - 08/18/02 09:46 PM Re: CBLDF Appeals Texas Retailer Conviction
Pat ONeill Offline
Member

Registered: 08/18/99
Posts: 3064
Loc: PA, USA
Folks--there's what's constitutional, what's legal, and what makes good business sense in a particular community.

If that retailer didn't know that having ANY adult material on display in a store across the street from an elementary school was an invitation for trouble in his community, he should have.

Part of running a business--especially a small business--in any community is being a good neighbor, a part of the community.

BTW, I don't know how it is elsewhere, but 7-11s and Wawas (the Eastern PA, South Jersey local equivalent) don't sell anything harder than Maxim on their magazine racks--no Playboy, no Penthouse, certainly no Hustler.
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