#505011 - 08/27/02 01:56 PM
Re: CBLDF Appeals Texas Retailer Conviction
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Member
Registered: 04/04/99
Posts: 4447
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It is not a wrongful conviction until it is overturned....
_________________________
"If we lose a hundred troops a week, then Dean will be our next Prez." Jack V, avid Dean supporter with no concern for the troops.
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#505012 - 08/27/02 01:56 PM
Re: CBLDF Appeals Texas Retailer Conviction
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Member
Registered: 04/04/02
Posts: 4588
Loc: Chicago, IL
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Originally posted by Pat ONeill:
Unless the door is locked and only opened when an adult customer wants entry or else there is a full-time guard at the door asking for proof of age, this is a joke as a guard against kids browsing the adult material. Or, say, if the door is visible from his counter, and therefore within eyesight if a kid tries to go in? I've seen video stores with a porn section separated by nothing more than a cubicle wall, yet they were able to keep kids out of the section by saying, "Hey? You 18? Let's see some ID" when the kid starts to walk towards it.
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#505013 - 08/27/02 02:06 PM
Re: CBLDF Appeals Texas Retailer Conviction
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Member
Registered: 07/10/99
Posts: 4618
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Originally posted by Pat ONeill:
And as someone who has worked in retail at several different levels (including in a comics store at one time), it is absolutely impossible to keep an eye on such an "adult section" at all times, unless you have a clerk assigned full-time to do so.. And as someone who has worked retail including at a comic book store, I can tell you you're full of it. A well laid-out store makes this reasonably easy, particularly if the adult section has a small, gated accessway. No one's proved that the community (as evidenced by the jury decision) So now the few people of the jury are the community? Y'know, I've never seen a kid under, say, 16, go into a Borders without an adult along. And in Pat's world, if Pat doesn't see it, it doesn't happen, right? Can you say the same for a comic-book store? I can't even say the same about Borders. Hell, when I was 14 I was spending several hours per week wandering bookstores unaccompanied; not Borders because this was before the Borders era, but certainly various bookstores in Philly. In convenience stores, cigarettes are routinely (I'm tempted to say "always," but heaven knows about places like North Carolina) kept behind the counter and proof of age is required to buy them. Not a good analogy, Peter. Gee, you've just described the situation of hardcore comics at Keith's -- routinely kept behind the counter and age-restricted. How that isn't a good analogy eludes me.
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#505014 - 08/27/02 02:13 PM
Re: CBLDF Appeals Texas Retailer Conviction
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Member
Registered: 03/27/02
Posts: 1985
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Originally posted by Pat ONeill:
In convenience stores, cigarettes are routinely (I'm tempted to say "always," but heaven knows about places like North Carolina) kept behind the counter and proof of age is required to buy them. Not a good analogy, Peter.
Not a very good argument against the analogy, Pat, except that it tracks well with your tendency to argue with assertions rather than facts, and your tendency to get the details wrong. Restricted access and age verification for cigarette purchases are federally required and apply to all state jurisdictions. The last I heard, North Carolina was still in the Union.
_________________________
Posted by Otto Chelman
"You have [my] contempt." -- Alan Light to disappointed TBG subscriber.
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#505015 - 08/27/02 02:26 PM
Re: CBLDF Appeals Texas Retailer Conviction
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Member
Registered: 08/04/99
Posts: 1337
Loc: Virginia, USA
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I thought I missed the Nat 'n' Pat show, but now I think Pete 'n' Pat should go on the road.
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#505016 - 08/27/02 02:27 PM
Re: CBLDF Appeals Texas Retailer Conviction
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Member
Registered: 02/04/99
Posts: 238
Loc: Waynesboro,Pa.
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Originally posted by Pat ONeill:
You and I must know a very different class of kids, Peter. To the ones I--at least those in the eight-to-twelve range--"adults only" is an invitation to sneak in, not a roadblock.
And as someone who has worked in retail at several different levels (including in a comics store at one time), it is absolutely impossible to keep an eye on such an "adult section" at all times, unless you have a clerk assigned full-time to do so.
Peter, I don't think my points have been refuted. They've been argued against on a "I believe this is so..." level, but not refuted. No one's proved it was impossible for a kid to see this stuff. No one's proved that the community (as evidenced by the jury decision) made an unreasonable distinction between an adult bookstore with no minor clientele and a comic-book store with a distinct appeal to minors. (BTW, why did Keith's choose a location across from a school if it wasn't precisely because they thought it gave them a "captive" foot traffic they wanted?)
Peter, there's a difference between "catering" to minors and having them as a small part of your customer base. Y'know, I've never seen a kid under, say, 16, go into a Borders without an adult along. Can you say the same for a comic-book store? In convenience stores, cigarettes are routinely (I'm tempted to say "always," but heaven knows about places like North Carolina) kept behind the counter and proof of age is required to buy them. Not a good analogy, Peter. Hi, Pat: you hang out at Borders watching if little kids go in alone? OOOkkkkkAAAaaYYYY? All kidding aside I use to go into bookstores by myself all the time when I was about 8 or 9. I use to live behind a shopping center when I lived in Va. Back in the day, the store use to sell porn like Playboy and Penthouse. But, then again, look at how I turned out. Bill Lange
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#505017 - 08/27/02 02:37 PM
Re: CBLDF Appeals Texas Retailer Conviction
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Member
Registered: 05/22/01
Posts: 1223
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Originally posted by JohnEWIlliams:
I thought I missed the Nat 'n' Pat show, but now I think Pete 'n' Pat should go on the road. "It never ends!" -The Metatron (played by Alan Rickman in Kevin Smith's "Dogma")
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#505018 - 08/27/02 02:52 PM
Re: CBLDF Appeals Texas Retailer Conviction
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Member
Registered: 02/04/99
Posts: 238
Loc: Waynesboro,Pa.
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Originally posted by Samuel Catalino:
Stirring up trouble in Waynesboro again, aren't you???
You bad boy, you... Hi, Actually Hagerstown, but close. Bill Lange
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#505019 - 08/27/02 02:55 PM
Re: CBLDF Appeals Texas Retailer Conviction
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Member
Registered: 04/04/99
Posts: 4447
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Originally posted by Bill Lange:
Hi,
Actually Hagerstown, but close.
Bill Lange Make sure you are armed there, remember what happened to that ex-cop's kid down there.....
_________________________
"If we lose a hundred troops a week, then Dean will be our next Prez." Jack V, avid Dean supporter with no concern for the troops.
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#505020 - 08/27/02 03:05 PM
Re: CBLDF Appeals Texas Retailer Conviction
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Member
Registered: 05/22/01
Posts: 1223
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