Dirk is talking about the 1970's Atlas, the one founded by Martin Goodman as a rival to Marvel. He's not talking about the 1950's Atlas.




The argument is: Marvel and DC have flooded the direct market in the past, and some people believe they still do so. Marvel is a small turd compared to Manga comics, in the bookstore market (not the direct market). Two different markets, two different situations.

Rodrigo Baeza
http://rodrigobaeza.crimsonblog.com

The reason why the DC superhero line was so small was because there was so much competition in the comics market at that time. There was western, romance, movie star, tv star comics all hustling for attention from the comics market. Superheroes were fairly warmly received, but like today they were a niche genre. Then the market bubble burst and also Wertham started crusading against certain genres.



Because those titles were the only superhero ones that were selling at that time.



Superhero comics were simply inoffensive enough to keep the code off of their backs.



I wasn't there but I would guess that being for-profit one could imagine that they would keep publishing the superhero comics that sold.




DC has been publishing superhero comics since it published Action Comics #1 the first superhero comic ever published.



I happen to place a lot less significance on the effect of the comics code than that. The code did not really make or break any markets at any time. They did keep swearing and other objectionable material out of them, but I don't see any genres that were crushed outright. Wertham destroyed EC, but horror did remain in a watered down form.



DC kept the superhero comics going but there was little demand for them outside those majors during the 1950s. But in the 1960s with JLA it became clear this genre might be lucrative.

Then if you want to buy manga comics then go to a bookstore and get them. It seems simple enough to me.

Ever read the original wording of the code?

http://www.comics.dm.net/codetext.htm

Tell me of any genre other than one aimed at children (and only at children) that wouldn't be crushed outright by that.

While we're at it, let's get specific. Tell me how horror comics could possibly have survived the following rules:

Thanks for the link Dan.



If you are trying to put in a position where I have to defend the comics code or any censorship for that matter forget it.



I said horror continued on less gory and more watered down. You could argue it was not really horror anymore but only very very spooky.

Are we supposed to cry?


[img]http://members.aol.com/comicsunlimited/protest.jpg[/img]

:::CLAP*CLAP*CLAP*:::

Paul H.,
It is true that superheroes have not been the most popular genre in mass-distributed comics at every moment in the history of the medium, but one could say that much about almost any genre out there. Some of the genres you mention as having sway over superheroes in the late 40's-early 50's didn't remain "hot" all that long. War comics rose and fell with the onset of the Korean War. Sci-fi comics enjoyed a boost in the early '50's, died down somewhat in the mid-50's and then spiked up again by the late '50's.

The ideal situation for a mass-market publisher would be to publish something that at least sells at the same level all the time, but since tastes change from year to year, the most a publisher can hope for in the real world is to play the "what's on top now?" game. For that they keep recycling genres that have sold in the past, be it horror, sci-fi or superheroes. The noteworthy aspect of superheroes for DC in 1956 was not that they were best-sellers during the entirety of the medium's existence, but that they had sold well once and might sell well again. It's true that DC didn't unleash a welter of new superhero books right away-- obviously they tested the waters before committing. But once the genre took off in the sixties, it became evident that this was a genre that certain readers would buy dependably. So, while superheroes weren't always THE most popular genre, it's demonstrable that their popularity fluctuated less than, say, war and western comics.

Given the fact that some superheroes were still published continuously through the '50's, and that a few publishers did attempt comebacks of the genre prior to the Code (Marvel tried to bring back its "Big Three" around 53-54), I think it likely that had there been no Wertham and no Code, superheroes would have come back anyway, when some of the more "edgy" entertainments wore out their welcome with the generally-fickle mass audience. Thus your opinion that superheroes only came back because they were too "dumb" to offend the Code is insupportable.

And we were talking about the comic book market, Rodrigo. I know, I started this thread. Others have skewed things to make their points work. And yet they still failed. After all, why bitch if Alternatives and Indy's do so well? Is Manga really the Indy's we are talking about anyway?

Somehow I suspect that the Indy people debating me and that use Manga as an example do so out of desperation. I am sure they hold Goku, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon in high regard.

Nope. Only asked you to defend a statement you made about a document, given the actual text of that document.



If by "watered down" you mean without mention of evil or monsters, without "unsavory" illustrations, and without use of the word "horror," then okay. Personally, I don't see what kind of viable market could exist under those conditions...