Ed Gauthier: "Nobody's talking about the dawn of time of the printing process. (Seems like you change the subject to fit your errors quite often.) "

As Joe noted, toned blacks (grays) in printing looked like ass. The earlier processes of etching and carving informed the process of inking. The creation of the inking step, as it was often performed by non-artists, had nothing to with (as you claim) speed of production but rather as a way of making the illustrations more legible.

Ed Gauthier: "Wow, so far you've backtracked from "tracing" to "copying" and now to "good memory.""

Nope, I still stand by my assertion that he copies. I'm guessing he's also done a fair amount of actual tracing, but as I already admitted way back in this thread, I have no idea whether or not he used a light box or onionskin. At any rate, Larsen's work is a development of his being informed by the work of others rather than life study, which he has also admitted.


Ed Gauthier: "songwriting and goofing around in rock bands)."

Ah, another wannabe lead singer. Like Ritchey. That explains a lot.

Joe Lee: "Created in the 1800's, the halftone is a technique that simulates continuous tone imagery by converting the image into dots of various sizes, allowing b&w and grayscale art, from b&w photos, pencil art etc, to be easily and clearly printed."

Sorry, I should have said, "You simply could not print from pencil art and not have it look like ass." There's a reason some newspapers still employ caricaturists. And that ain't because they're such Mort Drucker fans.

"You simply could not print from pencil art and not have it look like ass."

Line art did reproduce more consistently well. The quality of the reproduction using half-tones, usually depended on the quality of the illustration or the photo. I have seen some samples of old magazine illustrations that reproduced very well. Pencil or ink wash. Cleaner, higher contrast stuff.

Printing presses have gotten much better over the years too. As well as the quality of the screens being used to make the half-tones.

You couldn't add color to a half-tone very easily without it looking like ass. Unless you went through the elaborate trouble of making a duo-tone or tri-tone anyway. Sometimes you could get a so-so quality dou-tone, by doing what one press guy I knew called a cheater duo-tone by simply putting a light screen of color over the art, but that wouldn't always work very well. And you never knew how it would turn out until it was on press.

From earlier in the thread...

[quote=Jesse Hamm]It's been possible to print from pencils for over a century, but that process was harder [b]and therefore more costly[/b] back in the day, so comic publishers needed inkers to clarify the pencilled linework for their cheaper printing methods. Even as recent as the '90s, printers charged extra for the halftone process.

But these days, standard methods can easily accommodate pencils. [/quote]

And Jesse's absolutely right. Printer's nickeled and dimed everything.

To make a halftone was actually pretty easy back in the 80's when I learned how it was done.

It really wasn't that much more involved than line art at the time. You shot the line art to the desired size and made a film negative, then a film positive from that if you were pasting it up on boards.

If you were making a halftone you just added a screen to the process on the stat camera when you shot the art.

One simple extra step that some film strippers or print shops or pre-press departments would charge a great deal extra for.

Some color magazines still charge advertisers for color even though it doesn't cost them extra as the entire multi-page form, usually 16 or 32 pages, is being printed in color because of the editorial content and other ads with color are already there. One magazine I used to work for would give a way free color to b&w advertisers who were in color sections for compensation for a error or as an incentive, but it cost us no more to produce.

ALLEN ON PRINTING:

"...toned blacks (grays) in printing looked like ass."

It looked like reproduced pencils. If you want to call that "ass," that's your opinion. I prefer inks because it looks more defined and finished than ANY repro of mere pencils.

"The creation of the inking step, as it was often performed by non-artists, had nothing to with (as you claim) speed of production but rather as a way of making the illustrations more legible."

Again, nobody's talking about the dawn of inking, as sometimes performed by non-pros, or merely making anything more legible. The main reference was to COMICS production, and I told you that the assembly line method there was used to speed production, which it was.

Your weak backtracking attempt of shoehorning in the 1800s and boldly proclaiming that 1930s printing methods weren't used then is quite obvious.

ALLEN ON LARSEN:

"I still stand by my assertion that he copies."

Copies WHAT? Just because I said he derived his fishy character FROM the sketches of that Universal Studios chick (she's shown in the extras features of the Black Lagoon DVD), and Kirby's fishy Inhumans dude, that doesn't mean anything more than that limited start.

There were only so many of those studio sketches, and only a few Inhumans issues, so your whole "still copying" routine regarding Larsen runs out of gas pretty darn quick, man. And as I indicated, Larsen's "style" shows no significant quantities of the Universal chick or Kirby... or Byrne.

(Good lawd, you're really torturing me here, because I'm a happy-go-lucky Larsen-basher from way back, yet by your dumb claim you're forcing me to sing his praises. I feel sicker right now than I would if I'd just watched an hour of midget porn.)

"I have no idea whether or not he used a light box or onionskin."

You have no idea about a lot of things. Let me put it to you this way, which will also spare me from applauding the guy any more than I already have - if he DID use tracing paper over top a blaring light bar with the Star-Spangled Banner playing and the birds around his window chirping... don't you think all of his "Kirby and Byrne" copies would be looking one helluva lot BETTER?! Duh!

ALLEN ON MUSIC:

"Ah, another wannabe lead singer. Like Ritchey. That explains a lot."

Then it explained nothing (about whatever you wanted explained), because I hired someone else to do vocals. As songwriter, arranger and founder of the band, I got to sit back and play slide guitar and harmonica, letting them do all the REAL work.

Ed Gauthier: "I told you that the assembly line method there was used to speed production, which it was."

No, it was not. If Iger-Eisner could have just gotten away with shooting from pencil art, they would have done that. If they could just have a better printing process which would make the pencil art more legible, that certainly would have sped up production. But it was cheaper to have somebody go over the art in ink than it was to use a better printing process. Once again, inking was about making the artwork legible for the cheap printing process, not speed.

Ed Gauthier: "Copies WHAT?"

Figures. Backgrounds. Props. Faces. Hands. Again, use your eyeballs.


Ed Gauthier: "There were only so many of those studio sketches, and only a few Inhumans issues, so your whole "still copying" routine regarding Larsen runs out of gas pretty darn quick, man."

Larsen has copied from many, many comics.


Ed Gauthier: "You have no idea about a lot of things."

...speaking of running out of gas...


Ed Gauthier: "don't you think all of his "Kirby and Byrne" copies would be looking one helluva lot BETTER?! Duh!"

Read the thread. I believe I called his art the "man-child interpretations" of what he sees.


Ed Gauthier: "As songwriter, arranger and founder of the band, I got to sit back and play slide guitar and harmonica, letting them do all the REAL work."

I had to laugh at that.

I found a blog that features old magazine illustrations. There are a lot of full color illustrations but there are some good pencil ones here and there...

http://todaysinspiration.blogspot.com/