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#563906 - 01/06/10 11:31 AM Re: Superman as American Icon by Gary Groth [Re: IvanJim]
Lawson Offline
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Registered: 11/11/02
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Loc: Lexington, Ky.
Hmm. In that case, Groth was in his mid-30s when he wrote the essay, and he would have been publishing THE COMICS JOURNAL for about a decade by then. So no, he wasn't yet a creepy old guy lurking in the kids' treehouse, complaining about the peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. Because mid-30s isn't old.

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#563908 - 01/06/10 12:10 PM Re: Superman as American Icon by Gary Groth [Re: Lawson]
IvanJim Offline
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Registered: 06/16/01
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THANK you (says the guy who's just a smidge younger than Groth).

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#563909 - 01/06/10 12:18 PM Re: Superman as American Icon by Gary Groth [Re: IvanJim]
Lawson Offline
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Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 11978
Loc: Lexington, Ky.
I'm a few years older than Groth was when he wrote the essay.

I can't imagine spending 30 years of my life publishing magazines (THE COMICS JOURNAL, AMAZING HEROES) and writing extensively about an industry and a medium that I hate with every fiber of my being.

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#563912 - 01/06/10 12:26 PM Re: Superman as American Icon by Gary Groth [Re: Lawson]
Charles Reece Offline
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Registered: 08/18/99
Posts: 10013
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Well, you might've worked to change that industry, which is what Groth did, too. He clearly doesn't hate the medium, though.
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#563916 - 01/06/10 12:53 PM Re: Superman as American Icon by Gary Groth [Re: Charles Reece]
Lawson Offline
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Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 11978
Loc: Lexington, Ky.
Absolutely, Groth deserves credit for working to change the industry. He's gotten a lot of my money that way, too.

But I think he's more effective when he's simply publishing really great comics and books than when he's writing yet another friggin' rant about how stupid superheroes are and what godawful bastards run the companies that publish the stupid superheroes.

A Groth essay written a generation ago sounds a lot like a Groth essay written today.

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#563918 - 01/06/10 01:08 PM Re: Superman as American Icon by Gary Groth [Re: Lawson]
IvanJim Offline
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Registered: 06/16/01
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Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: Lawson

A Groth essay written a generation ago sounds a lot like a Groth essay written today.


Then quote from ANY modern essay that Groth has written about superhero comics. Chances are you might not find one as he stopped paying much attention to them quite a while ago.

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#563920 - 01/06/10 01:09 PM Re: Superman as American Icon by Gary Groth [Re: IvanJim]
Charles Reece Offline
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Registered: 08/18/99
Posts: 10013
Loc: us of fuckin' a
That is true.
_________________________
The Gospel, wherein much Truth is written.

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#563921 - 01/06/10 01:11 PM Re: Superman as American Icon by Gary Groth [Re: Charles Reece]
Dean R Milburn Offline
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Registered: 07/06/99
Posts: 2043
Loc: Indianapolis
Comics as an industry and a medium are far better off better off than they would have been without Gary Groth. The fact that several inches on my bookcase are taken up by the works of Gilbert and Jaime Hernandez is more than enough to make up for more than a few overwrought, undergrad level takedowns of Superman.

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#563922 - 01/06/10 01:11 PM Re: Superman as American Icon by Gary Groth [Re: IvanJim]
Lawson Offline
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Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 11978
Loc: Lexington, Ky.
Originally Posted By: IvanJim
Then quote from ANY modern essay that Groth has written about superhero comics. Chances are you might not find one as he stopped paying much attention to them quite a while ago.


Well, you got me there, because I stopped paying much attention to Groth quite a while ago. I read him throughout the 1980s and sporadically into the 1990s but eventually lost interest.

If Groth in recent years has stopped writing about superhero comics and how stupid he thinks they are and how he believes they've ruined everything for the comic book world, then good for him, that's a healthy evolution.

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#563924 - 01/06/10 01:19 PM Re: Superman as American Icon by Gary Groth [Re: Lawson]
Lawson Offline
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Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 11978
Loc: Lexington, Ky.
Heh!

That took 30 seconds.

From an essay Groth posted a couple of weeks ago about (ahem) professional comic book criticism, where, in this part, he laments the Silver Age of comics because all the attention was focused on those friggin' superheroes the kids were reading:

GROTH: To give you some idea of how creatively impoverished the field was, Bails considered it a celebratory event when DC began publishing its rejuvenated superhero line in 1959! Good criticism, at least at this stage it seems, required a critical mass of good art — and that there certainly wasn’t; the fanzines created in the early ’60s (and most of the fanzines through the early ’70s, in fact) reflected the stunted creativity of the comics themselves in their mindless enthusiasms and exuberant appraisals.

Hee hee.

Good to see that some things never change. I think he even used some of the same insults he used back in the early 1980s when I first read basically this same shtick. Groth, 1982 = Groth, 2009.

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